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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
I'm trying to learn more about the whole realm of "marketing". I bought a few of Jim Snack's smaller courses and I have a few other resources. The more I learn, the more I see how much I don't know. Out of this comes two questions:
(1) What are some books y'all would recommend to introduce me to the basic concepts of marketing and its components? Most of the books I've gotten so far (including some of Jim's audios) assume a basic (or better) understanding of things like marketing, positioning, advertising, branding, promotions, and such, and how they're related yet separate. And I find that I'm not really clear on that. What might I get from my library that can help me? (2) My focus is magic aimed at kids but involving the whole family. Right now I'm concentrating on birthday shows and the Ice Cream Social family school show. I've seen some people here say they don't present themselves as doing birthday parties, but as having a family show that is good for birthdays. I'm not trying to steal anyone's market positioning or proprietary stuff, but I'm wondering how that concept makes a difference in your whole marketing approach? Ed |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
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On 2011-11-17 10:25, Ed_Millis wrote: I think it would be very rare to actually be stealing anyone's approach. It is impossible to come up with a truly independent approach; all ideas come from somewhere. I'm no marketing expert, but I have been doing a lot of research. A few of my favorite books are: (Marketing related) - FOCUS: The future of your company depends on it (Talks about the importance of focused marketing, and the separation of brands) - Lovemarks (Understanding the emotion your brand evokes in people) (Magic Marketing related) -Win the Crowd by Steve Cohen -Six Figure Magic by Lou Serrano (I haven't read Jim Snack's course, so I can't comment on similarities or differences) (Public Relations related) -Public Relations Writing and Media Techniques (this is a textbook! It is not a fun read, but has a lot of valuable information on PR. There are a lot of older versions available for dirt cheap on half.com) -AP Stylebook (a text that helps one understand journalistic styles. This is useful if you intend on writing a lot of press releases) To give a basic answer to your second question: Who YOU are determines how you market your show, and you have to know who your show would appeal to. There isn't a magic formula (unfortunately). I'm sure a lot more experienced guys could give a better answer than mine, but its a very similar thing I've been going through lately (so don't feel bad). |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Family shows are just that, in the audience will be mom, dad, son, daughter all sitting together next to each other. Their control of the children is implied by their close presence.
Children Birthday parties are just that, you may be left alone with 50 little children presenting a show. You are left to control, I call it more like babysitting the children. You are forgetting the most important part of business - Selling! You can have all the parts of that you mention, but without the most important part, selling, you will not have any business. Marketing is just that, analyzing the markets and coming up with a strategy to enter the market. The term Target Marketing is what your question is about. Birthdays is one Target Market you could pursue, and Family Shows is another market you could gear all your efforts toward. An example would be. I am a close-up magician. Target markets could be corporate socials, festival socials, banquet cocktail parties, etc. In marketing it may be good to section your region, such as I will only promote my show business to prospect that I can reach within 2 hours of my home base. Get a map and draw a circle for that distance. Now search out or start cold calling in that area only. This is marketing. The next step is sales, the act of interaction with humans to get your benefits to your 'market area' and close the sale by getting a commitment. For family shows, you could say your market is dance schools, cub scouts, boy scouts, etc. All these type of organizations have award shows. So you gear your sales material to the market of something like, for your next award event, make it memorial with a live magic show by Ed Millis. Positioning is more difficult as you have to be somewhat established in a market to have a position in that market. Branding, you have to decide what our brand is. Ed Millis the procrastinator, or Ed Millis the working magician and go getter. Advertising is your web site, your printed material describing the benefits of hiring you for the market place. Promotions can mean advertising campaigns, or if you book me for all 6 of your events this year, they will get a show free, or a discount. A good salesman performs all these topics in one sales call without thinking or having to break it down by topic. Hope some of this helps you understand. These topics can be make huge scope, that is why some people get a Masters Degree in Marketing. |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
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that is why some people get a Masters Degree in Marketing. Understood and appreciated!! I know the full scope of everything is too big for a Quick Reply to an internet forum. I'm just like a lot of people who are finally trying to figure out why they've never made a dent in their "market". As I look through all the "marketing" stuff I think I know, I realize I've got a grab bag of assorted concepts, but I don't have enough of the whole picture to understand what I have versus what I'm missing and need to get - much less what to _effectively_ do with it all once it's in my hands. The question about birthdays vs family shows was wondering how those who market themselves this way actually make that distinction to the customer. I can put anything I want on my materials. But if the customer envisions a birthday babysitter for their party, _any_ magician/other entertainer they hire is going to drop into that niche, yes? So there's apparently some way that positioning yourself (and I hope I'm not butchering the proper use of these terms) as a "family show magician who does birthdays" vice a "birthday party magician" helps pre-qualify you to clients that separates the decent shows from the babysitter contracts. Or did I misunderstand that? Ed |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Ed -
Nothing wrong with being great at birthday party shows, as well as other shows. Some birthday shows have the whole family (and extended family), and some are primarily groups of kids with 1 or 2 adults. It's more about you adapting to the show situation itself, rather than your approach when marketing. I do kids and family shows, and I'm not too worried about making the distinction to the customer. Whether I'm good at either is a point made more by my testimonials and word of mouth about my show. Tell us more about what you are getting at. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Ed - glad to see you reaching out to the Café community that's what it is here for.
as for your questions for a long time I focused on birhtdays but always trying to do bigger shows at the same time. not long ago I switched my focus to doing bigger shows - Family shows and discoverd I got more birthdays as well. the point is making the Distinction between the two is not as important as focusing on that you do family focused shows. by doing this naturally you will be asked if you do birthday parties. and for books to read I recommend books on marketing and selling that have nothing to do with magic - stop thinking one dimentional. some of the best stuff I read was not for magicians but has helped me grow my biz. keep up the good work sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Ed,
In the eyes of most, there are only two kinds of Magicians. 'Good' and 'Bad.' Sam and Donald are in the Good group because they do more than just birthday shows. They do bigger shows too, so they must be good in order to please so many people. Not to mention that their name is often in the news, tv, magazines, etc. Proof positive that they are good enough for some little birthday party. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Donald:
One reason I post here is that the responses I get often help me clarify what I'm trying to get at! I guess what I'm trying to get out of all this is (a) a framework for approaching "marketing", which I'm beginning to understand is thrown around as a catch-all phrase and really has many separate facets, and (b) a direction or vision for building this framework from the correct components. Sam: I think it was your recent comment (in some post somewhere!) that jogged me into thinking along the lines of "family show guy" vs "birthday guy". Although I do remember having seen that elsewhere from others too (again, I'd be hard pressed to find the exact posts). With respect to The Great Hegblini's comment, I'm not asking for a spoon-feed of a MBA in Marketing. But there's a lot of stuff floating around out there and I'm not sure what I need and don't need. So I need a beginning grasp of the various facets of this arena - that would be my framework - so that I can start putting the correct pieces in place to get me where I want to go. I got a couple of "marketing plan" books from my library, but a few pages in I realized that I could use a more basic underpinning before I go diving into there. For instance: "family show guy" vs "birthday guy" - I don't understand enough to know if that marks a radical shift in thinking and approach, or if it's simply what words you put on your materials. It sounds like an approach I'd like to take, because I'd like my birthday shows to be whole-family affairs and not just babysittings. So that's why I was asking for book recommendations for the basics and foundations of what it all means. Ed |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Ed -
Make your show entertaining enough for adults, and they will watch with the kids. Problem solved. Don't be "afraid" of being in situations where you feel like more of a babysitter than an entertainer. You learn and grow from those opportunities. On the other hand, it's not wrong to communicate to the customer that you expect adults to be on hand at the show, to help supervise the kids. Also, possible mainstream books you might look into: * The Guerrilla Marketing series * books by Tom Hopkins (he has one titled "Selling for Dummies") * books by Jeffrey Gitomer * books by Paul and Sarah Edwards * books by Zig Ziglar * books by Dan Kennedy * etc. Read as much as you can, from many different authors. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Let me offer another thought Ed. While at a glance a kids birthday party magician and a family magician may see similar, or to be the same things, sometimes the audience's perception and the perception of the potential client or buying public may be different.
As a very basic example, I would not assume just because a magician can do kids birthday parties that they could somehow be qualified to do a fair, festival, or school family event. BUT, I could more easily think that a family entertainer that does fairs, festivals and family school events, could also do a kids birthday party.(in reality neither one is necessarily true, but the perception is different. One is more easily acceptable) Implied perception is part of positioning and marketing. Not the perception of the entertainer, but the perception of the potential buyer or customer. |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
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On 2011-11-17 11:05, wmhegbli wrote: I've done well over 1000 birthday party shows, and I can't recall a single time when I've had to be alone with 50 kids. I've never even seen 50 kids at a child's birthday party. Most birthday groups are about 5-15 kids, with the occassional party size being 15-30 kids. And with larger groups, I've always had adults on hand. With all of my birthday shows, I have adults on hand. Occassionally, if there are only a couple of parents, they might want to duck out for a moment to prepare some food. But that's a rare thing. Now, if there are quite a few adults at the child's party, I'm not saying that every adult watches the show. But enough are on hand watching the show and the kids. Ed, a great way to make sure that adults are on hand, is to encourage the customer to take photos or video of your show, when chatting with them in advance. This is advice in addition to having a show that's good enough to really entertain the kids and parents. - Donald P.S. If you need help with managing your young audience, seek our Julian Franklin's book, "Kid Control."
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
Ed, marketing is not something you build overnight, but it literally takes years and understanding to fully grasp where you want to go with it. I'm just starting now (after 10 years in magic) to understand where I want to go with it. Three years ago I started studying marketing, and when I did that even my material as a performer improved. But first: Stop comparing yourself to other performers.
Writing out your thoughts to identify goals can really help. So here is a brainstorming technique I did that may help you. Its a really tough thing to take a step back and look at yourself like a client. But, I do feel like the following exercise helped me identify what my market(s) are looking for. So try this: 1. Take several sheets of paper and write down a VERY specific type of party/event on each sheet you can see yourself doing very well performing. (one example of mine: private dinner parties) 2. Write a sentence explaining what your ideal show for this market is (my example: I want clients having elegant dinner parties to hire me for close up, parlor, or strolling magic) 3. Write out specific occasions where these parties occur (mine: company parties, cocktail parties, birthdays, wedding receptions, holidays, etc. 4. Make a list of what the client who hires me is TRULY interested in (watching magic doesn't count). (my example: guests being happy, people remembering the party, people thanking the host for a good time, people creating memories, having the party run smoothly) 5. Make a list of what makes #4's interests happen (mine: amazing them with magic, making specific guests feel special, acknowledging the special reason for gathering, etc.) 6. Make a list of places you need to be seen in order to meet people that will make this happen (ex: restaurants, other dinner parties, etc.) So after all of this, ask yourself this question: If you could describe all in one sentence of who you are, what you're offering, and what's in it for the customer, what would it be? This may or may not work for you, but it helped me and really clarify my thoughts. Now that I did that, I've realized a lot of the mistakes in my strategies. What I've been telling people through my materials doesn't even come close to what I realized they may be looking for. Some things may cross over, but you may be able to identify what a market is, what they're looking for, and how you can communicate that you solve that. I hope it helps. Dave |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Excellent thoughts, Dave. I'm going to take that list home with me and work it over the weekend.
I'm not trying to compare myself with other performers, necessarily, other than to perhaps say "He seems to have a grasp on things. How can I get there?" And it all starts with learning. I'd just like to have a more focused beginning than to grab a book off the library shelf and try to implement everything it says with no understanding of how all the pieces fit together. Ed PS - As I said, I did get some of Jim Snack's stuff. His "Smart Business for Entertainers" and "Getting your Act Together" packages are very nice, and included a couple of lists to help focus your direction. I am also seeking other professional services. But I do want to try to understand as much of what's happening as I can. |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
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On 2011-11-17 16:21, Ed_Millis wrote: I absolutely never said (or meant to say) that you weren't trying to understand what you're doing, or where you're coming from. I also never said that you were trying to compare yourself to other performers. I was simply trying to list what I've gone through, and how my experiences could help you. And I truly do hope they help Dave |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
My strategy:
1 - figure out what I don't know enough about (sales, marketing, positioning, persuasion, copywriting, SEO, advertising, etc) 2 - search on amazon.com to find books (including reviews, book suggestions) on the topic (amazon has a great book search tool) 3 - search out these books at the library (90% of the time they have them) 4 - look through all the books I've borrowed and find 1 or 2 that seem to fit best and read those while taking the rest back |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
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On 2011-11-17 16:42, Scott Burton wrote: I'm going to try that one! |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Think and Grow Rich - Napoleon Hill
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MikeClay Special user Atlanta GA 761 Posts |
Ewww great suggestions.. many I have read and a few I have sitting on the shelf....
a few more that would be good to look at - Duct Tape Marketing ... it goes through the basics without having to spend a ton to get it going.. - Seth Godin (if he wrote it READ IT) this is the guy who launched Squidoo knowing Web 2.0 was going to be huge) start with Purple Cow, and Poke the Box - The Ultimate Sales Machine - UnMarketing: Stop Marketing and Start Engaging due to medical issues I have almost been forced out of entertainment other than part time (no more than 2 gigs a weekend) but I've got 2 other entertainers that I am farming gigs to al the time now.. My mindset is and has always been... BE DIFFERENT... Don't market like everyone else... Be what they are looking for.. If you want to do kids parties find out what people are looking for in your region, and jump in front of them when they look... and learn Google Places....
its ok.. balloon dogs don't bite
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Ed, I believe I gave examples in marketing to/for Family Shows. I mentioned that you market to, say, a Boy Scout Awards Banquet for a family show. No matter if you call them, send them a flyer, or see them in person, you would only talk about the benefits of your show for everyone in attendance.
I don't think you would call up the Boy Scout Council or leaders and try to sell a birthday party show, when they have no need for a Birthday Party show. That is marketing! Recongnizing the prospects needs and filling that need. I also mentioned family shows from dance studio for children, piano recitals groups for children. You would promote a family show for these events. If you wanted to market yourself as a Birthday Party magician, who would you contact. You would contact the parent of the child having a birthday. How do you know who is having a birthday? Everyday the publish births, start a data base of those births. In 5 years you can start marketing/contacting them for birthday shows. I hope you understand my comments more clearly now. |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
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On 2011-11-17 22:11, MikeClay wrote: I agree, Seth has a great blog you could read too for free. Here's a video of him speaking to google that I know you will enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZnYRaQfjK4 |
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