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rockwall
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http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/op......97176697

I'm not familiar with Aussie newspapers so I don't know how reliable this story is. Maybe one of our Aussie friends can comment.

"On cue comes the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, which this week issued warnings to businesses that they will face whopping fines of up to $1.1m if they blame the carbon tax for price rises."

Mike
balducci
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What the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission REALLY said and is doing:

"Australian Competition and Consumer Commission chairman, Rod Sims, warned businesses against using the carbon tax as cover for UNJUSTIFIABLE price rises. Any business that blamed price rises on the tax would need to be able to justify them, he said, as he put businesses on notice that the ACCC would scrutinise increases with the same rigour it did when the GST was introduced in 2000."

"The watchdog has already caught out businesses trying to profiteer from the carbon tax, including taxi drivers and a bottle shop that raised prices and blamed it on the tax, even though it does not begin until July."

"Mr Sims stressed that businesses - provided they were not subject to price regulation - were generally free to raise and lower prices as they saw fit and were not compelled to justify them. ''What you can't do is mislead people into accepting it because they think it's due to a carbon price and it's happening everywhere.''"

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climat......e4wZlbvz
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
tommy
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No one can justify any price increases due to carbon tax as carbon tax is an utter BS scam.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
critter
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I had that thread about carbon tax a while back, but I still don't understand it.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Salguod Nairb
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I also hear there is a fine if you don't tie your mates kangeroo down.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
rockwall
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The ACCC sound like a bunch of Earbashers to me!
Magnus Eisengrim
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Ever wonder if you're shouting reason into an empty valley, Balducci?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Yea I am against most taxes of this nature, but I am even MORE against clouding an already murky debate by businesses telling stories about things that just are not true. It "seems" as if some of that is going on. It just makes it so hard to figure out what is actually going on.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Well John how would you put it then? Seriously I ask.

Don't you think it is just a bit of an arrogant statement? I am sorry if it is the way I am reading it but when I read it I see a person who thinks they are the only one with the answer and are just so much smarter than everyone else. That is how I read it. If that is not how you wrote it then I made a mistake.

But can you see how it sort of reads that way?

"Reason into an empty vally" meaning we are all too dim to figure it all out? Sorry John but that does seem arrogant and condecending.

Oddly enough we seem to be on the same side here. I just don't like when you say things like that for the reasons above. It clouds the issue and it makes those of us who inhabit the "empty vally" struggle to find the truth. Hopefully we can live up to your oh so high standards pretty soon.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magnus Eisengrim
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Danny, it probably is arrogant. I find it oddly disappointing that so many people (including my friends here at the Café) ignore evidence when it gets in the way of pre-established opinion. Maybe I'm a jerk. But I think that what someone (in this case, the ACCC) actually says is more important than what critics want to pretend that they said. I'm funny that way.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Dannydoyle
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But John, to be fair you have pet causes YOU ignore evidence or make allowences for just because you agree with them. You hold those you disagree with to a much higher standard than those you agree with. On some level we are all guilty of it. It is just easier to point it out in others.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-11-19 11:55, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
I find it oddly disappointing that so many people (including my friends here at the Café) ignore evidence when it gets in the way of pre-established opinion.
John


I empathize, but your expectations may be too high.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-11-19 12:03, Dannydoyle wrote:
You hold those you disagree with to a much higher standard than those you agree with. On some level we are all guilty of it.


I think this is true. Self-awareness re: the tendency is a good start to try to at least minimize it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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Yea it is tough. I try, I really do. I mean as I said I am against taxes of this nature, but I am even more against people who shade the issue with bs. It makes being self-aware tougher even if you ARE trying. They play on emotion, fake logic and such and manipulate people who even though they try don't get the right information.

But yes try to minimize it is the key.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
rockwall
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Quote:
On 2011-11-19 11:55, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Danny, it probably is arrogant. I find it oddly disappointing that so many people (including my friends here at the Café) ignore evidence when it gets in the way of pre-established opinion. Maybe I'm a jerk. But I think that what someone (in this case, the ACCC) actually says is more important than what critics want to pretend that they said. I'm funny that way.

John


But John, why post it in a thread where no one is even disagreeing with the post by balducci? As the creator of the topic, I even said, "I don't know how reliable this story is."

So your post does make it sound like you just assume everyone can't see reason except for you and balducci even though there was no evidence to suggest that. So, I would have to agree with Lobo, just a tad arrogant. But that's OK, I think we all feel that the other side a little stupid from time to time.

Mike

As to the ACCC. I wonder how diligent they are about tracing ALL claims made by businesses about higher prices? And I wonder how much there statement, while reasonable sounding, is meant to scare companies about making ANY claims for fear of having to go up against the ACCC's war chest over the issue.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Bah. I'll just look worse if I try to explain.

I do my best to hold myself to a high standard. I accept correction when I am wrong, and I retract errors and omissions wherever possible. But I do avoid commenting on links I haven't followed, or papers I haven't at least skimmed.

But I'm fallible. And opinionated. And I p!ss myself off sometimes.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-11-19 12:25, rockwall wrote:

But John, why post it in a thread where no one is even disagreeing with the post by balducci? As the creator of the topic, I even said, "I don't know how reliable this story is."

Your post after mine was "The ACCC sound like a bunch of Earbashers to me!".

Perhaps you were not explicitly disagreeing with my post, but I did think you came across as being at the very least rather dismissive of it.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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Is your position that somehow this justifies arrogance?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-11-19 15:31, Dannydoyle wrote:

Is your position that somehow this justifies arrogance?

The words arrogant and dismissive are listed as synonyms in at least some dictionaries and thesauruses. For example, online, see:

http://thesaurus.com/browse/dismissive?qsrc=2446&o=102334

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.or......smissive

As I said, I found Rockwell's post after mine to be at the very least rather dismissive of it. So the arrogance follows.

So if you want to pick on Magnus for being "arrogant" in this thread that's fine, but he wasn't the first.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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