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TStone V.I.P. Stockholm, Sweden 769 Posts |
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On 2011-11-28 09:40, martyjacobs wrote: Sorry about that... I guess. I'm the sum of all my parts - and one those parts is that I always get severely irritated when good artists gets treated like they were criminals when they suggest that their works isn't in public domain. That's a sensitive point for me, because when I create material, it is always intended for my own use - my expectation, when creating, is that I have rights to my work and that no one will demonize me for it. If I, later on, decide to share my work - my expectation is still that I won't become vilified. This particular part affect all other parts, even those parts that people seem to like. Now, I do not remember that I've asked for your admiration (though I'm immensely flattered by it), and I don't feel that it is my responsibility to keep it unaffected, if it means that I must supress a very essential part of me. Quote:
I'd like to remind you Tom, that the motto of the Magic Café is "Magicians Helping Magicians." Andrew is a well respected member of this on-line community, such a dismissive post was not helpful. Go back and check Andrew's posts. In the context, I was more curteous and cordial than what was motivated. |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1666 Posts |
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"Now, I do not remember that I've asked for your admiration..." Nobody can request admiration, you get it whether you like it or not! I don't expect you to behave in a particular way just because I like your magic. However, your knee-jerk reaction to Andrew's post disappointed me. Quote:
"Go back and check Andrew's posts. In the context, I was more curteous and cordial than what was motivated." Andrew simply stated that he was unhappy with some of Helder's business practices, he wasn't attacking him or being rude (which seems to be the way you interpreted his post). He certainly wasn't treating him like a criminal. If you take people's money for a product, you should be prepared to deal with unhappy customers, even if the cause of their complaint is unjustified. I agree that artists like you and Helder should be able to protect the work you release. I also have no issue with Helder requesting the WPR footage be taken off-line. However, all magicians should be more up-front about the restrictions they're imposing on their material. On "Red Mirror", Helder actually requested that the viewer didn't perform any of the material on the disc as presented (this was not mentioned in the marketing material). This, to me, seems ridiculous and negates the whole point of releasing the material in the first place. So Andrew's negative view of Helder's work is somewhat justified. Also, publishing a pretentious manifesto is not the right way to promote the art of magic in my opinion. Marty P.S. I'm a big fan of Helder's work, I just don't agree with his "new" approach to magic (which isn't new at all). I found several sections of his manifesto incredibly condescending, which is a shame because in general the advice given is good. |
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The One Veteran user 325 Posts |
All this, and it's just a bunch of crappy, unengaging card tricks and pretentious self-indulging theory.
I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end...
I came here... To tell you how this is going to begin. |
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3055 Posts |
Wow, really the one? That's helpful.
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NYCJoePitt Special user 558 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-29 06:48, martyjacobs wrote: Ummm... Thanks for pointing it out, I really liked it. |
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
I want to point out several things - first of all, I too respect Helder's right to protect his material. It's his and he's free to do whatever he chooses to with it. I think that it was over the top to have the review pulled, but as Craig and Dave often say, that's just my opinion. My life experiences have shaped how I chose to handle business; Helder's have taught him a different set of rules. Clearly we don't see eye to eye on that, and that's okay. I still respect him as a creator, even if I don't agree with him on certain principles.
To me, it seems as though he was blindly following his own rules without taking into account what good a review would do for him. Yes, I understand the restrictions he placed on the material, and I understand why. As I have said, that's not my complaint whatsoever. I don't care if he states that someone may perform his material, provided that he is allowed to kick them in the groin first. Lay out all the restrictions you want, it's your material and your right to do so; I completely support that. That doesn't change the fact that as a consumer, it comes across as though he had the review pulled merely out of principle - to show others that he means business when it comes to his work and its use. I enjoy watching him work and, unlike some other people have posted, I don't WANT his sales to be harmed. I hold no ill will toward him; I simply disagree with the way he handled this situation, and some of the marketing of his products. If you walked into a car dealership, paid for a car, then got inside and found a notice saying that you weren't allowed to drive it...you'd be upset, right? Sure you can look at the car, appreciate it, study it, and perhaps even build your own car using some of the elements you saw, but you'd feel a little rooked, wouldn't you? You bought the car to drive it, and if you weren't allowed to, that should have been disclosed ahead of time. Hopefully, we can still treat each other with respect, even if we don't always agree. Otherwise we're just the U.S. government...a lot of bickering without any progress.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1666 Posts |
Well said Andrew, and thanks for clarifying your position on this matter. I think perhaps others misinterpreted your standpoint.
@NYCJoePitt, I too like elements of the manifesto, but I dislike the overall tone of the piece and the apparent lack of respect for the reader; some of the points it raises are phrased in a very confrontational and insulting manner. The manifesto also makes massive assumptions about magicians, e.g. that we don't read magic books any more! I'm afraid I've seen this kind of thing before and is often the product of a self-indulgent artist. If the advice was written in a more friendly manner, then I think it would be much more useful. Marty |
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Darth_Prime Veteran user 322 Posts |
It's rubbish, no excuses for it either,
bad on his part, |
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DollarThief New user 51 Posts |
I bought The Enigma and picked up Ringleader as well, based on the guys suggestion. I like Enigma but I LOVE ringleader. Great idea to combine them.
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DollarThief New user 51 Posts |
Another note on The Enigma: you can do some of the effects with the cord of your headphones. I have an iPod, so I sometimes have a set of headphones handy.
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-24 03:12, TStone wrote: Copyright, in the USA anyway, doesn't cover the sorts of performance restrictions that are proposed with this product. Here in the USA, for example, if you release a song to the public, you do not have the right to keep another performer from rerecording it or performing it in public, although you are entitled to royalties if you hold the copyright. Guimaires seems to be relying on some sort of a contract theory when he sets forth his restrictions, but since they weren't explicit at the time of sale, they're moot and unenforceable. Sorry.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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