The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » US Has Greater Inequality than Egypt, Tunisia? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
I think issues like publicly funded education and child health care get some traction when we remember that children cannot be held responsible for the basic fortune or lack thereof. The hard decision is how far we want to intervene.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1171 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
I think for some, the hard part is admitting that we don't really want to live in a society that has perfect equality of opportunity. We either want to live in a society where money provides opportunity or we recognize that it's inevitable; and we want to live in a society where some people can accumulate more money than others, and where people who do so have some autonomy in determining what is done with that money, including passing it on to one's loved ones.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On 2011-11-25 13:55, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I think for some, the hard part is admitting that we don't really want to live in a society that has perfect equality of opportunity. We either want to live in a society where money provides opportunity or we recognize that it's inevitable; and we want to live in a society where some people can accumulate more money than others, and where people who do so have some autonomy in determining what is done with that money, including passing it on to one's loved ones.


I agree. But I doubt that most of us want to live in a society where we make no effort to improve the prospects of those who through no fault of their own have severely diminished prospects.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
critter
View Profile
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2513 Posts

Profile of critter
I have no idea what is actually being argued in this thread. Is it whether America should be the "land of opportunity?"
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers


"This I offer in explanation of how it was that I found myself in my undergarments as I sat in my cell attempting to plot my escape."
~Professor Phineas Valeyard, Miskatonic University Dept.of Psychodynamic Natural History.

New Facebook Page:
https://www.facebook.com/Valeyard-Magic-Stage-233226717588438/
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
I think part of what is being discussed is how deep any of our commitments are to equality of opportunity.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1171 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
I think part of it the extent to which inequality of wealth correlates with inequality of opportunity (and to which inequality of opportunity, in the abstract, correlates with quality of life).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4732 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2011-11-25 13:55, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I think for some, the hard part is admitting that we don't really want to live in a society that has perfect equality of opportunity.

Thank you. This is exactly where I was trying to push the conversation. When we sort this part out, the rest becomes easier to deal with. And again, I think it's helpful to think of the margin of error that we're willing to tolerate, rather than deal in all or nothing propositions.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4732 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2011-11-25 15:38, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I think part of it the extent to which inequality of wealth correlates with inequality of opportunity (and to which inequality of opportunity, in the abstract, correlates with quality of life).

Certainly that's a major issue. A quick glance around also shows that perceived race and gender are other important variables.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19759 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On 2011-11-25 15:08, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-11-25 13:55, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I think for some, the hard part is admitting that we don't really want to live in a society that has perfect equality of opportunity. We either want to live in a society where money provides opportunity or we recognize that it's inevitable; and we want to live in a society where some people can accumulate more money than others, and where people who do so have some autonomy in determining what is done with that money, including passing it on to one's loved ones.


I agree. But I doubt that most of us want to live in a society where we make no effort to improve the prospects of those who through no fault of their own have severely diminished prospects.

John


I also don't want to live in a society where government tells me what MUST be done with money I have earned. If I want to leave it to my children then why can't I? If you don't think your children are any more worthy than others less fortunate that is YOUR decision. Would you want to live in a place where the government told you you MUST give it to your children?

Why should anyone be able to tell you what to do with money YOU EARNED and already paid taxes on?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
Why do we have to live in either extreme?
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
I'm with Steve. I don't mind the government spending some money on things that are valuable for the management of the state and for establishing fair and equal (room for wiggle and disagreement here) opportunities.

For example, I am all for well run and fairly monitored elections. And an independent judiciary. And clean water. And sewage. Fire protection. Police. Public education. A reasonable level of health care.

But no one I know wants the government to tell us how to spend ALL our money. That's crazy.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19759 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Well where is the happy medium? Just how much money should they be allowed to take, just because one can "afford it"?

I am for fair. I think that is great. I think that when fair is to take from one to give to another we do not have fair, we have legal theft.

We need roads, military, and lots of things that are provided for in the constitution nicely. (Incidently health care not being one of them but that is another thread.)

But why should outcome be guaranteed equal? If I am in school and I get a 98% on a test and another gets a 60% and fails, why should there not be a different grade?

I just don't like the idea of equalising outcome is all. That is just not right. Government should allow and provide equal opportunity without punishment of those who manage to achieve more.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kevin Connolly
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
1329 Posts

Profile of Kevin Connolly
What do you think PanLives?
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com

Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email]
panlives
View Profile
Inner circle
2087 Posts

Profile of panlives
I think the premise of the original article is deeply flawed and entirely inaccurate.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4732 Posts

Profile of landmark
Care to expand?
panlives
View Profile
Inner circle
2087 Posts

Profile of panlives
Quote:
On 2011-11-26 08:26, landmark wrote:
Care to expand?


I have lived in all three countries and have experienced a sense of the underclass that does not seem to exist in the United States.

But then again, although Canadian, I am an ardent fan of the core values that anchor the United States. My opinion here is hardly interesting and certainly biased in favour of “America.”
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
balducci
View Profile
Loyal user
Canada
230 Posts

Profile of balducci
Quote:
On 2011-11-25 19:27, Dannydoyle wrote:

Why should anyone be able to tell you what to do with money YOU EARNED and already paid taxes on?

About the money earned and paid taxes on thing ...

Food for thought:

“There’s real truth to the idea that the tax code for the 1 percent is different from the tax code for the 99 percent,” said Victor Fleischer, a law professor at the University of Colorado.

“This welfare for the well-off — costing billions of dollars a year — is being paid for with the taxes of the less fortunate, many who are working two jobs just to make ends meet, and i.o.u.’s to be paid off by future generations,” said Senator Coburn, a Republican, who has called for limits on tax breaks for high earners.

“It’s admirable when people back their charitable impulses up with donations,” said Scott Klinger, tax policy director of the group Business for Shared Prosperity. “But the tax code shouldn’t allow the wealthy the kind of loopholes that let them, essentially, force other taxpayers to underwrite donations to their pet causes.”
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19759 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
What does that have to do with my question?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » US Has Greater Inequality than Egypt, Tunisia? (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL