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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Ultra board or Classic Mental Epic Board? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magicinsight
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I already have Mr. Osterlind's Ultra Mental Board. I also have Mr. Liefler's no-fo... mental epic board. Because the no-fo... mental epic board is quite bulky and heavy, I was thinking of getting the new Classic Mental Epic board that is being sold on Osterlindmysteries.com which was the same one used by Mr. Osterlind in his Live without A Net dvd set. I would like people's thoughts about using the Ultra Board that requires DW, the regular no-fo... mental epic board which is heavy and bulky or the thin, lightweight regular Classic Mental Epic board by Richard Osterlind that uses a fo... (or a st..ked deck selection) for the final prediction.

Does the benefit of having a lightweight, easy to handle chalk board such as the Classic Mental Epic outweigh the downside of not having a no-fo... final prediction? You can use a deck st..k for the final revelation without a fo... but a card selection is not as personal or strong as knowing someone's birthday or some other personal information. Do you think the use of a deck st..k for the final revelation as used by Mr. Osterlind is or can be as strong as a no-fo... final revelation?

Am I better off using the ultra board with DW or the equally lightweight new classic mental epic that uses a no-fo... or deck st..k for the final revelation?
Thank you very much.
Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Domino Magic
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The Gann/Osterlind presentation Richard presented on Live Without A Net has to be one of the strongest Mental Epic routines I've ever seen. Currently I'm using Lefler's no force board and ordered Osterlind's Classic Mental Epic, which is going to replace the Lefler board.

Is the playing card finale strong? Watch the DVD. I don't think you could ask for a stronger reaction. My wife watched it and had no idea how he could have gotten that card, and she is savvy about these things. I don't know if personal information is stronger in the structure of that routine, because he's already made two personal revelations. I don't think a third one would have been stronger than what he did. It's a great routine.

The other features for me on this is that it's lightweight. The Lefler board is heavy and it's hard to handle in the same carefree style. I also like the blackboard over the whiteboard. More visible, no glare, no markers to dry out.

I'm sure you will get opposing opinions from people who think ending with a card is weak and that blackboards are out-dated. Osterlind doesn't perform weak material in his professional act and I think this routine proves that.
magicinsight
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Domino,

Thank you for your thoughts and comments. I totally agree with you that Mr. Lefler's board is very good but very heavy and hard to handle. Do you have Mr. Osterlind's Ultra Board? If so, do you prefer the ultra board taht uses dw which can have the no-fo... final revela or classic mental epic version by Mr. Osterlind?

Thank you very much.
Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Domino Magic
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I do have his Ultra Board and I've used it. It's a great prop and clever method. As with anything in what we do, method isn't always the deciding factor for a strong effect. I know some mentalists get magician's guilt when doing dw, but personally it's never bothered me. The routine Richard performs with the Classic Mental Epic Board is stronger than the one I'm using with the Lefler board. I've never had a problem with the traditional Mental Epic routine, only with the prop itself. Most of them look ridiculous. They're made to look nice in a magic shop. The Lefler board is a nice looking prop. I've never been question about it. I was thrilled when I found out Richard was releasing his version because I was going to modify my Lefler board so that it worked in the tradition way.

Ultra Board is a versatile prop, not only in the routines you can perform with it, but also if you're using it like Richard does, to write down revelations, it's something you have with you anyway and you're using it throughout your show. It had never occurred to me to use a stack with Mental Epic and you're not just limited to cards. You can use Osterlind's ODDS drawing duplication routine or Annemann's Extra-Sensory Perception and end with a drawing duplication.

Getting back to routing over method, I feel that the Gann/Osterlind ending solves a problem with the standard routine. What we have are three revelations. After the first revelation, the audience gets it. They basically know we are going to get the other two correct. So the logical conclusion is to try to make each revelation more difficult. Bill Abbott has a great routine in the Mental Epic Compendium with an invisible coin that does just that. But the Gann/Osterlind ending turns novelty into surprise. You get the first two correct, then you have a great gag which breaks up the pattern, then the third revelation is slightly different than the first two and almost unexpected because initially the gag feels like the end of the routine.
magicinsight
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Domino,

Thank you VERY much for your thoughtful and extensive comments. I did not think about using ODDS with the mental epic routine. I will be getting the Classic Mental Epic board. I appreciate your help and courtesy.

Best wishes,
Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Sandstar
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Just to be clear, does Osterlind's new board require a f**** ending?
magicinsight
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Quote:
On 2011-11-28 15:49, Sandstar wrote:
Just to be clear, does Osterlind's new board require a f**** ending?


Yes and no. It uses a regular f..... as in any regular mental epic. However, Mr. Osterlind uses a st..ked deck for the final card revelation a seen in his Live without a Net dvd set and as dicusssed by Domino in his posts so it is a freely chosen card. Also, as Domino mentioned, which I did not think of, you could use Mr. Ostlerind's ODDS (Osterlind Design Duplication) to have a design duplication ending.

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Sandstar
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Thanks for the info. Guess I'll stick with the Epic board I bought from Robert Nelson. A no f**** ending.
Lord Of The Horses
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Quote:
On 2011-11-28 15:59, Sandstar wrote:
Thanks for the info. Guess I'll stick with the Epic board I bought from Robert Nelson. A no f**** ending.


Lucky you!
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
Domino Magic
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To be absolutely clear, the routine Osterlind uses is a combination of Ronnie Gann's routine and Richard's own ending. The board is a traditional mental epic board, although better made than any on the market. The Gann/Osterlind routine DOES NOT use a force at the end.

Don't dismiss the routine based on preconceptions. When you see it, you will agree it's one of the strongest routines you can do with any mental epic prop. I'm giving up my no-f**ce board for this, that's how strong it is.
magicinsight
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Thank you Domino for your help and your PM. I just ordered it. I am looking forward to using Mr. Osterlind's mental epic board and routine.

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Domino Magic
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Here is an excerpt from the Classic Epic book that comes with the prop that was written before this thread started. I have permission to quote this here:

Quote:
I know I will invariably be asked what benefits this board has over the Ultra Board or the Epitome Board. There really is no answer. They are different props for attaining a similar end. Just like I sometimes use envelopes for doing a Pseudo Psychometry routine, ala Annemann, and sometimes use my S.O.S. Bag, I vary how I do the classic 3-way routine using any one of the many different methods I have put before the fraternity. On any given occasion one method or another may be the one I prefer. Sometimes I just feel like doing it a particular way!

Before I go on, let me address a question which, I predict as a mentalist, will be asked by many performers. “Isn’t using a force (or discovery) a step backwards for a Mental Epic routine?” My response to that is, “Why?” If a force (or discovery) is executed properly then it should be as strong as a free selection! As a matter of fact, it should look EXACTLY like a free selection! See, many newer magicians and mentalists, who haven’t been exposed to classic literature and thinking, just assume it is some type of rule that a free choice is ALWAYS better. They need to take a look at some of the strongest mentalism ever performed such as the Dunninger Addition Test or Stanley Jak’s Supersonic Prediction.

There can also be benefits when using a force. If the audience believes the mentalist has somehow gained information ahead of time behind the scenes, then a strong force can cancel out that preconception! Also, in the case of working with the Mental Epic platform, a non-force board requires some type of double-writing. That, in itself, is a drawback that must be dealt with expertly or it can look suspicious. Many newcomers simply cannot handle that. There is always a balance when it comes to method.
Sandstar
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I understand what Osterlind is saying and I agree in principle. However, on a practical performing level I think a no-fo board offers simplicity and amazement that is unique. Many years ago when I first bought my board from Nelson I would close my program with it. The last effect was telling a stranger how much change he had in his pocket. Haven't done that in quite a while, but it was a total mind-bender then and I think it would have the same effect today. As far as the look of the boards is concerned, all of them appear odd. That is not a problem if presented in the right way. And let's face it, we mentalists are odd by definition, so oddness fits. Celebrate it. That's why people come to see us. Aren't we all just one step away from the boardwalk freak show? (Whatever happened to freak shows? They were such an important part of our culture. I guess now we send the freaks to Washington.)
Domino Magic
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Sandstar,

You're implying by your post that the Osterlind presentation does not offer simplicity and amazement. Have you seen the DVD or are your comments based on the fact that it's a traditional mental epic board? Again, the Gann/Osterlind presentation is a no-force presentation performed with the traditional mental epic board. I admit it had never occurred to me to use a traditional mental epic with a no-force ending.

On the other subject, personally I've never felt these board were odd looking. They're just a tool we use to display information. Sure you could use a steno-pad or sheets of poster board so everything looks "normal", but using those props don't give you that final picture of everything being displayed at once. I've used the steno-pad before, but prefer a mental epic board for that reason.
Sandstar
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Domino,

No, I haven't seen this Osterlind video. I do own a number of his effects and DVD's, though not this particular one and I do appreciate his ability. I'm sure the Gann/Osterlind presentation does offer amazement, but did I read about the use of his card stack as part of it? It's an excellent card stack and I'm sure it's integrated in a wonderful manner. I admit that I never thought of using such a thing with Mental Epic. Also, I admit that I am not a great fan of cards. I'm not fanatical about it. I have and do use them, just not very often. And with my old brain I'm afraid card stacks in general are not a risk that I want to take. (How I wish it were not so.) By simplicity I mean having a spectator stand up, empty his pockets of change, and telling him how much was there. It doesn't get more direct than that and you can't do it as the final test with a "traditional" Epic board no matter how sleek it appears. But maybe I have misunderstood your description. (The old brain again.)

When I say these boards are odd-looking, I mean from a spectator's viewpoint. I doubt that a single person who sees us perform with one has ever experienced anything quite like a chalk or white board partitioned into six squares. I think the oddness of it is the reason many mentalists don't want to use them. IMO that's rather short-sighted, but to each his own.
Sandstar
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A postscript. Hate to sound so cheap, but for 250 bucks I would hope for a bit of new sleek no-fo technology.
Domino Magic
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Quote:
On 2011-11-29 14:19, Sandstar wrote:

When I say these boards are odd-looking, I mean from a spectator's viewpoint. I doubt that a single person who sees us perform with one has ever experienced anything quite like a chalk or white board partitioned into six squares. I think the oddness of it is the reason many mentalists don't want to use them. IMO that's rather short-sighted, but to each his own.


Sandstar,

I can certainly appreciate your perspective on the mental epic routine. I think you would enjoy Osterlind's routine if you get a chance to see it. I also agree it's short-sighted to not include something in your show just because the audience has never seen it. For mentalists I think it's magician's guilt. All of a sudden they become prop-phobic!

Quote:
On 2011-11-29 14:24, Sandstar wrote:
A postscript. Hate to sound so cheap, but for 250 bucks I would hope for a bit of new sleek no-fo technology.


There's a couple of things that sets this new board apart from what is currently available. First it's probably the most innocent looking board out there. Very very thin and lightweight. What this allows is complete ease in handling. I'm comparing that to a Lefler Slate of Mind board which is HEAVY. It's thick and it's a bit awkward to handle. If you haven't seen the prop, you can on his site:

http://osterlindmysteries.com/store/inde......n00rhai1

But I don't think you can see how much easier it is to handle just from that photo. I haven't seen one in person yet. I have one on order and am just going from what I saw on the DVD. Most traditional mental epics are painted to look colorful and they're noisy. This is a handmade prop and that certainly affects the price. Plus I feel that Osterlind always includes a lot of value in the books that he includes with his props.

By contrast I also own a Lefler board, which I paid more than $250 for. It didn't work out of the box. I had to modify it. The markers he included were dried out and it came with a two sheet instruction that repeated itself. So knowing Osterlind doesn't sell junk and every prop I've bought from him has been the highest quality, $250 is cheap!
Sandstar
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Lord of the Horses - Of course, I knew we were related, I am a mentalist. There is even a slight family resemblance, though, sadly, it appears that you are burdened with more hair.

Domino, it is a great-looking board. I do enjoy Osterlind's thinking. Mine was hand-made and was sold by Nelson as the Broadcast Slate. It is a bit thick and clunky, but no spec has ever guessed the workings. Here's a pick for historic interest.
Sandstar
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Sorry, looks like it didn't come through.
magicinsight
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If you purchased the Live Without a Net dvd set directly from Osterlindmysteries.com you will get a 25% disount off the price of the Classic Mental Epic plus any future effets used from the dvd set.

One of the reasons I purchased the Classic Mental Epic is that it is very thin and lightweight and easy to handle. ANother reason is taht it has a terrific routine by Richard Osterlind.

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
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