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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Gaffed & Funky » » JAY SANKEY BRAINWASH (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MeetMagicMike
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Quote:
I've certainly bought tricks for $20 that sit in my closet, and paid for other tricks I could have made (Invisible Deck, anyone?)


I'm just curious about your example. The invisible deck is an incredible value. It's much easier to buy than to make. Besides that, in order to make it you would have to have a roughing agent and know how to use it.
Magic Mike

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stevenb123
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Labor intensive, perhaps, but doable. Anyway just an example, perhaps not a particularly good one.
Grampa Wizard
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Apparently, 22 Blows to the Head is no longer available from JS. Mebbe he's selling the effects on that DVD as separate routines?
Grampa Wizard
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Well, there ya' go! Just checked Penguin. They list 22 Blows, but it's out of stock. And in their description can be found this line: "9. Fade Away - Jay has sold this item alone for 20 bucks!"
motown
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I've always made up my own decks that use R & S. Not that difficult.
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Alan Munro
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Quote:
On 2011-12-20 02:42, MeetMagicMike wrote:
Quote:
I've certainly bought tricks for $20 that sit in my closet, and paid for other tricks I could have made (Invisible Deck, anyone?)


I'm just curious about your example. The invisible deck is an incredible value. It's much easier to buy than to make. Besides that, in order to make it you would have to have a roughing agent and know how to use it.

I may go back to making custom Invisible Decks, soon. It seems that there's a demand for ones that work properly, right out of the box.

As for Brainwashed, the method seems to be from an old Al Baker effect.
motown
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Al,

Which one are you thinking of?
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
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Alan Munro
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On 2011-12-22 20:27, motown wrote:
Al,

Which one are you thinking of?

I forgot the name of it, but it involved having the spectator select a card by lifting off part of the deck, under a handkerchief. I've been trying to remember which book had the description of it. I think Eugene Burger referenced it in one of his books, because he came up with a variation where the cut was performed under the table, without a hanky.
martyjacobs
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Quote:
Well, there ya' go! Just checked Penguin. They list 22 Blows, but it's out of stock. And in their description can be found this line: "9. Fade Away - Jay has sold this item alone for 20 bucks!"


Well then he definately should have mentioned that the effect was taught on "22 Blows to the Head." I have no problem with Sankey re-packaging and selling previously released items, he is free to do this. However, he must realise that a lot of his customers would already own "22 Blows to the Head." Mentioning this in the ad copy would have been a nice touch in terms of customer service.

Still, this is a great trick, and works especially well after Card Through Hankerchief (with a little thought on the performer's part).

Marty
gadfly3d
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The trick is effective and practical but if my theory of how the trick works is correct, and I think it is. then the only creative element that Jay has added to this is his clever use of language. Note also he says there is a free choice of where the cards are cut and not what he seems to be saying.

I think if a card person who is somewhat well informed bought this he would be disappointed but for a beginner It would be useful,

Gil Scott
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P.S. After making the above post I actually laughed out loud when it occurred to me that the name of the trick doesn't refer to the trick but to the pitch.

Gil Scott
rklew64
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The term swindler comes to mind.
magicbern
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On 2011-12-23 13:10, rklew64 wrote:
The term swindler comes to mind.


A rather uncalled for statement. The demo is a fair description of the trick and as someone said earlier, he is an excellent pitchman. Fade away was his own adaptation and routining of an old principle so again, how does that make him a swindler?

I seem to remember the same arguments made after Penguin released Oz Pearlman's Clutch several years ago. Some claimed that he ripped off an old trick in the Mark Wilson course.

I agree that crediting could be much improved by Sankey for the force principle but still don't think his creation could be labelled as a swindle.
Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2011-12-31 16:33, magicbern wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-23 13:10, rklew64 wrote:
The term swindler comes to mind.


A rather uncalled for statement. The demo is a fair description of the trick and as someone said earlier, he is an excellent pitchman. Fade away was his own adaptation and routining of an old principle so again, how does that make him a swindler?

I seem to remember the same arguments made after Penguin released Oz Pearlman's Clutch several years ago. Some claimed that he ripped off an old trick in the Mark Wilson course.

I agree that crediting could be much improved by Sankey for the force principle but still don't think his creation could be labelled as a swindle.


Sankey's crediting is suspect in other instances as well. No matter how many times I seem to mention this, nobody seems to look up an effect in The Jinx called The King's Kards. Look it up and then compare it to Sankey's Astral Projection. Sankey does NOT credit Hardin at all for the original effect. MAYBE he didn't know of the effect's existence, but, magic is rife with crediting problems. Ask some of the old guard about Frank Garcia.

Sankey's business model has not made a lot of people happy these days. I am one of his lost customers. But, I DO hasten to add that he HAS and perhaps still DOES create excellent magic. But Brainwash is clearly a case of squeezing the buck out of the uninformed. He used to include as part of another DVD. Now he markets it as a separate effect. Certainly it's Sankey's business and good fortune to him. But, even a modicum of research would save some people a few bucks here. Just sayin'

The creation is not a swindle and I do not believe rklew64 is saying that about the EFFECT; I believe that he is referring to re-releasing an effect as a featured item that was once a part of a larger DVD collection. As for the effect, kudos to Sankey for applying an ancient selection "procedure" to a Blizzard derivative.

Ahimsa,
Vlad
Zombie Magic
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This came out years ago. You got a special deck and instructions. It was called Fade Away. It did ( does ) use the Baker Force. Then it was put on the Sankey DVD 22 Blows To The Head. Then it was on The Greatest Hits DVD set. Now it's called Brainwash.

I bought it when it first came out. It's a good trick.

Newbies and hobby people buy most of the magic sold. It seems smart to market to them.
Cameron Francis
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I don't think Sankey is doing anything dishonest, here. The post above is correct. He released it as a $20 trick a long time ago. Then put it on a couple of dvds. Now he's releasing it again as a stand-alone item. What's wrong with that? It's a good trick. I used to do it at restaurants and got great reactions from it.

Also, if you own 22 Blows to the Head and read the ad copy of Brainwash and see the demo, you should know that it's the same trick. I don't think he's deceiving anyone on this point.

A lot of people bash Sankey but he is running a business. And as long as he's not being dishonest (and he's not in this case), then what's all the fuss over?
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
magicbern
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Sankey's crediting is suspect in other instances as well. No matter how many times I seem to mention this, nobody seems to look up an effect in The Jinx called The King's Kards. Look it up and then compare it to Sankey's Astral Projection. Sankey does NOT credit Hardin at all for the original effect.

Ahimsa,
Vlad
[/quote]

Vlad can you tell me the issue where this trick appears? I'll look it up and then watch the video presentation of Astral Prediction.

Thanks!
Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2012-01-02 19:32, magicbern wrote:
Sankey's crediting is suspect in other instances as well. No matter how many times I seem to mention this, nobody seems to look up an effect in The Jinx called The King's Kards. Look it up and then compare it to Sankey's Astral Projection. Sankey does NOT credit Hardin at all for the original effect.

Ahimsa,
Vlad


Vlad can you tell me the issue where this trick appears? I'll look it up and then watch the video presentation of Astral Prediction.

Thanks!
[/quote]

Hi Magicbern,

Here is my post about it in Classic Periodicals which is a thread in Secret Sessions:
The Jinx, n.104, p. 627

Hardin's King's Kards

This effect is basically the same as Jay Sankey's Astral Projection and the same methodology. Sankey's version uses a full deck while this one uses 30 cards. Obviously if you know The Jinx method it's very easy to adapt to a full deck. Sankey's effect adds a few refinements and an additional effect where a signed cards vanishes from packet to another. Sankey does not credit this effect for the inspiration to King's Kards. Perhaps he was unaware of it or perhaps it was a case of independent invention 60 years later. Who knows? Card magic historians might be able to shed some light as to whether the Hardin effect might have been preceded by an earlier effect. I would love to know for sake of historical record.

Sankey definitely enhanced the effect but I am quite surprised to find no crediting especially considering the fact that Sankey has a strong background in terms of traditional methods as well as his own creations. Perhaps he didn't have access to The Jinx so who knows - except Sankey - whether this was a case of independent invention 60 years later. What troubles me is the The Jinx is not an obscure journal as for instance Talisman.

Anyhow, there is the citation. What is important is the basic method which is virtually the same.

Ahimsa,
Vlad
MeetMagicMike
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Well said Cameron. The people in this thread who actually bought the trick are quite happy with it. I don't see anything wrong with his description of the trick or with his choice of how to package it.
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KungFuMagic
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I hear everyone about their outrage at being sold a repackaed trick. I am new to purchasing others' stuff . . . I stick to the classic techniques and work out my own when I can. That said . . . the ones who seem the most angry are very likely NOT the target audience for "Brainwash". There is such a turnover in hobbyists and people in the buying mode, and soooooo many tricks and materials available for purchase, that re-releasing his existing material really is a smart marketing move.

Mr. Sankey is in the business of seeling his wares to a willing audience. New products get far more attention and ink than stuff released 20 years ago. Instead of getting beat up about re-releasing the same package from before, and called a hack for not being innovative, he takes a shot at sending out this DVD with physical props to perform the effect. I can't speak to the usefulness of his Brainwash DVD, but I do think he deserves a little bit of a break for being a business man.

How many of us go out and create all new material every time we do a show? Not comepletely the same argument, but it gives the basic idea.
Nick Sasso
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