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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Gaffed & Funky » » JAY SANKEY BRAINWASH (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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FrenchDrop
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Quote:
On 2011-12-09 16:29, Vlad_77 wrote:
As to the person who told me I could pay 20.00 USD to buy the rights:

1. My solution meets Sankey's effect, so if I chose to perform my approach and not knowing Sankey's method the rights ACTUALLY go to someone who has already shuffled of the mortal coil if indeed an old principle has had "rights" attached to it.

2. I saw no claim of exclusive rights about this effect on Sankey's website.

Um...okay. Smile

Vlad, you're the one who said you couldn't in good conscious perform this effect, because you might be stealing from Sankey. I was only suggesting that, if you actually wanted to perform this effect, you could shoot $20 Sankey's way and eliminate any feeling that you were stealing from him.

That's what we're doing, isn't it, when we pay another magician for an effect we've already figured out? We're eliminating any qualms we might feel about "stealing" from that magician by paying him what he's asking for the trick. For me, an example would be John Bannon's Duplicity. I'm 90 percent sure I know how that effect is done, and that I could do it if I had six blank-faced cards. But I wouldn't dream of doing it without buying the effect first, because it's not my creation.

That's all I meant by "buying the rights" for 20 bucks.

If that offended you or annoyed you for some reason, I'm sorry. That certainly wasn't my intention.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
FrenchDrop
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(Erm..."in good conscious" should've been "in good conscience." *** this board's ancient software and its editing limitations.)

(And its censorship of words you hear every day on daytime TV. Smile)
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
motown
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On the other hand many times someone tries to recreate something they saw and end up creating a new method or handling.
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TheGreatRaymondo
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Think I'll stick with Colossal Blizzard!
We are inclined to believe those whom we do not know because they have not yet deceived us...
Grampa Wizard
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So . . . the deck is under the napkin when the spectator cuts to "select" a card. And the performer is holding the deck and handling the lower packet under cover? Would a spectator find this suspicious? I wonder. Not.

I think I'm with you, Vlad, methinks I'd prefer either one of the Blizzards.
Chessmann
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The magician brings the lower half out from under the napkin (or silk, or...) and shows the spectator the card he cut to - spec sees the front and the back of the card. The spectator alone has control of the top half while under the napkin. Lower half goes back under the top half, spec can then take hold of the entire deck and can also (if you wish) removes the napkin/silk....

I've done this for a few people. They thought it was great.
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tomsk192
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Quote:
On 2011-12-09 18:23, FrenchDrop wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-09 16:29, Vlad_77 wrote:
As to the person who told me I could pay 20.00 USD to buy the rights:

1. My solution meets Sankey's effect, so if I chose to perform my approach and not knowing Sankey's method the rights ACTUALLY go to someone who has already shuffled of the mortal coil if indeed an old principle has had "rights" attached to it.

2. I saw no claim of exclusive rights about this effect on Sankey's website.

Um...okay. Smile

Vlad, you're the one who said you couldn't in good conscious perform this effect, because you might be stealing from Sankey. I was only suggesting that, if you actually wanted to perform this effect, you could shoot $20 Sankey's way and eliminate any feeling that you were stealing from him.

That's what we're doing, isn't it, when we pay another magician for an effect we've already figured out? We're eliminating any qualms we might feel about "stealing" from that magician by paying him what he's asking for the trick. For me, an example would be John Bannon's Duplicity. I'm 90 percent sure I know how that effect is done, and that I could do it if I had six blank-faced cards. But I wouldn't dream of doing it without buying the effect first, because it's not my creation.

That's all I meant by "buying the rights" for 20 bucks.

If that offended you or annoyed you for some reason, I'm sorry. That certainly wasn't my intention.


I worked out Stand Up Monte, but bought the old version anyway. It was totally useless, as it only came with the 2 requisite cards, which were old enough to have no coding beneath the AoS lettering. The ace symbol on those DF cards was not only significantly bolder, but also a slightly fuller fuller design in terms of area. I scrubbed the coding off the regular bicycle card, but the match wasn't too good, because of the inking and the size. I made up a load of sets, in the end, using a pack of DF's and can now do SUM wihtout magicians' qualms.

I'm still glad I bought the trick, though. It's a great piece. Support the author.
Jeff Hartsoe
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Quote:
On 2011-12-09 18:06, stevenb123 wrote:
Isn't this the same effect as Jay's Fade Away on 22 blows to the head?

Yep, turns out that it is. Which doesn't make the effect any less cool, but....


It appears this is the same trick. I own "22" so I guess there is no need to purchse it again. Hmm..., the same guy,with the same effect, with two different names for the effect. I'm a fan of Sankey, I'm not a fan of this marketing ploy.
Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2011-12-12 21:04, Jeff Hartsoe wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-09 18:06, stevenb123 wrote:
Isn't this the same effect as Jay's Fade Away on 22 blows to the head?

Yep, turns out that it is. Which doesn't make the effect any less cool, but....


It appears this is the same trick. I own "22" so I guess there is no need to purchse it again. Hmm..., the same guy,with the same effect, with two different names for the effect. I'm a fan of Sankey, I'm not a fan of this marketing ploy.


It's not uncommon for... nevermind... Smile

Ahimsa,
Vlad

PS: I have mentioned this a gazillion times, but I wish SOMEONE would look up Kings Kards in The Jinx and then look at Astral Projection and ask why Sankey didn't credit Hardin Smile Okay, I will say so that I don't get sued that perhaps Sankey was unaware of effect or perhaps even of The Jinx. I knew it when I was 15, 21 years ago. Amen.
mindexplorer
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Yes...but this time the cover has been updated to a napkin! I am curious as to whether any purchasers of the trick feel that (as stated in the ad blurb) the cards supplied are superior to the usual special Bicycles that I might use in making up "Fade Away?" The most ironic thing is that this is listed as being for a beginner, but if the beginner were instead to buy "22 Blows to the Head" they would get several good effects for the price. This would seem better, especially for the beginner.
motown
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You would think Sankey lived on some remote island without any communication with the outside world, when you look at how little crediting there is on his DVDs.
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Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2011-12-12 22:37, mindexplorer wrote:
Yes...but this time the cover has been updated to a napkin! I am curious as to whether any purchasers of the trick feel that (as stated in the ad blurb) the cards supplied are superior to the usual special Bicycles that I might use in making up "Fade Away?" The most ironic thing is that this is listed as being for a beginner, but if the beginner were instead to buy "22 Blows to the Head" they would get several good effects for the price. This would seem better, especially for the beginner.


A sound argument if one accepts the premise that the author gives a whit about actually assisting the beginner - not that I am implying anything of course.

Ahimsa,
Vlad
Craig Ousterling
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Jay Sankey is a master pitchman. He could sell someone fifty different tricks all at fifty different prices and ALL USING THE SAME METHOD. He's my hero. Master pitchman I tell you. The way he explains this trick is awesome.
Vlad_77
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Quote:
On 2011-12-13 16:38, Craig Ousterling wrote:
Jay Sankey is a master pitchman. He could sell someone fifty different tricks all at fifty different prices and ALL USING THE SAME METHOD. He's my hero. Master pitchman I tell you. The way he explains this trick is awesome.


I used to be "with it" - and Craig you would know what I mean by that. Sankey would be great on the grind.

Ahimsa,
Vlad
eddierush
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LOL! Thank you all for making me laugh. I saw his video describing the effect and I am so thankful that I take the time to find and read many of the older books on magic. Everything old is new again. Different day, same old stuff.

Thanks Smile
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martyjacobs
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Quote:
"Isn't this the same effect as Jay's Fade Away on 22 blows to the head?


This is exactly what I thought when I first watched the demo. "22 Blows to the Head" is a good DVD. Seems sneaky of Sankey to re-package a single effect from it and sell it as a single trick DVD. But then I've come to expect this kind of behaviour from him.

That being said, this is a great trick.

Marty
motown
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I watched 22 Blows to the Head last night. Seeing it performed made things clearer. I wouldn't exactly say it lives up to the hype on Jays video for brainwash. I was watching an Aldo Colombini video the other day that had a routine using the same method with the hank, although it wasn't a blank deck routine.

Vlad, yes I do.
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stevenb123
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I've owned 22 Blows for so long that I had forgotten all about Fade Away-- there are so many strong effects on that DVD that I never really thought about buying the necessary "prop" for this trick. So, I purchased Brainwash, not realizing I already owned the secret and could have done it for like ten bucks. My mistake, not Jay's. So, basically I paid ten extra dollars for very good quality props. And now a trick that I wasn't doing has entered my repetoire and is getting amazing responses. And I got a couple of bonus handlings as well. Fair enough. I've certainly bought tricks for $20 that sit in my closet, and paid for other tricks I could have made (Invisible Deck, anyone?) I've developed a routine that includes Brainwash after performing Vallerino's Bandwich and the double punch of cards/blanks in these 2 effects has garnered extraordinary response. I don't regret the purchase, but do understand the issues.
martyjacobs
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Quote:
So, I purchased Brainwash, not realizing I already owned the secret and could have done it for like ten bucks. My mistake, not Jay's.


I disagree, I think this is another case of Jay Sankey trying to make a fast buck by re-packaging old material. He could have mentioned in the ad copy that the trick was also featured on "22 Blows to the Head", but then that might have had a knock on effect on sales. I like a lot of Sankey's material (this trick included), but I don't like the way he treats his loyal customers like idiots by making them pay for the same trick twice.

Marty
stevenb123
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Quote:
On 2011-12-19 09:54, martyjacobs wrote:
Quote:
So, I purchased Brainwash, not realizing I already owned the secret and could have done it for like ten bucks. My mistake, not Jay's.

He could have mentioned in the ad copy that the trick was also featured on "22 Blows to the Head", but then that might have had a knock on effect on sales.


Fair enough.

sb
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