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Jonathan
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I love the video although the presentations at the end of the effect are pathetic!!! Yes, you make a name for yourself doing it. And yes, I get asked all the time how I do it. However, as a Christian, I have a different perspective than those who aren't. I'm not here to bring up religion or beliefs in such things, but it is essential to understand my approach. I do not wanting people to turn to ANY kind of power that is not God and I also don't want people believing God can give power in ways that He doesn't.

This is a dilemma but I feel that ignorance kills everyone, Christians and non-Christians alike. Like Ian said, how can you respect a person's religious beliefs as being accurate when they are fooled to think a simple trick is the work of demons? I use my mentalism to show what is possible WITHOUT power of any kind other than knowledge and practice! This doesn't keep people from calling my house asking for psychic readings, but it helps. Those are the kind of people who are going to believe in it no matter WHAT!!!

I just say that it's all science. It's using scientific laws to bend reality or the perception of it. Everything can be scientifically explained. If you present this explanation right it can still be very mysterious as science, the brain, senses, etc are VERY mysterious and a realm just as exciting and attractive as the spiritual realm is. People will see the results and are seem to be even more excited when they find out that they can learn to do it if they searched hard enough and in the right places.

Take it for what it's worth.

Jonathan Grant
Greg Arce
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I simply say, "I"m not sure how I do it... it doesn't work all the time." I leave it as a puzzle in their mind and they fill in the rest. I've noticed that the less I offer as explanation the stronger they percieve what I've done.
Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
Bambaladam
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Hey guys.

Sorry to have confused matters. Smile

My point is, there is only a difference of degree between taking lots of money from ONE person and taking a little from lots of people.

I think, essentially, we have to live with that in our own way. I'm not judging anyone who does a lot of private readings, I just can't say I want to do it at this time (and that's not ONLY cos I'd suck at it). I think for me the line is drawn somewhere at miracle-working (i.e. healing people, promising wealth to those who pay the most, sect ********). I think responsible psychic work is at least as helpful as that of a "shut-eye" psychic.

And as far as performance goes... A friend of mine says anyone who's buying mr Gellers self-help books on the merit he's great at bending spoons... kind of deserves what they get.

The ability to psychokinemagnotelekinetically bend pieces of metal... does not in any way obvious to me automatically grant any kind of authority as regards the difficult decisions people need to make in their lives.

One way of dealing with all of this is to say you are a miraculous supernaturally endowed genius who really can't give advice because you spend most of your time practising your ability and don't get out of the house or shower much. Smile

/bamba
vovin
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One thing I think people are overlooking is that when somone see's a effect that they percieve as occult or supernatural. It has deep psychological implications that may possibly seriously effect them. I done a floating bottle cap once that freaked a girl out so bad that she actually cried and to this day won't come near me cause she thinks I am the devil or something. the point is sometimes you have to give people a logical "out" that explains the situation in a realistic manner and makes the effect more possible for them to swallow. I usually go into a big speal about quantum physics and sub atomic particles etc....
Philemon Vanderbeck
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Quote:
On 2002-05-06 16:56, saglaser wrote:
I don't care how amazing a card trick will be, nobody will ever believe that it's the result of real magic unless they already have a firm belief in such things. Psychic phenomina is an entirely different kettle of fish. While there are many devoted believers, and many equally devoted disbelievers, there are a huge number of people in the middle, able to be swayed to one side or the other based on the evidence of their experience.


I keep hearing this claim, and yet, in my experience, I have found no evidence of it.

I have noticed that in regards to the believer/non-believer field, everyone is pretty much on one side of the fence or the other; I have yet to find an actual 'fence-sitter'.

That doesn't mean that there AREN'T actual fence-sitters out there, but I suspect they are a very rare breed, right up there with Bigfoots (Bigfeet?) and Nessie.

So, putting on my skeptic's hat, do you have reference to an actual study that shows that there's "a huge number of people in the middle, able to be swayed to one side or the other based on the evidence of their experience"?

Quote:

To sway these people into belief that a trick is true psychic power is to set them up as potential victims of scams. It merely prepares them to fall for those con artists who use mentalism not to entertain but to cheat people out of their money.


I believe that people are either born gullible, or have gullibility thrust upon them at an early age.

As evidence, I present the fact that many scam rackets keep lists of 'suckers' which are set-up for further scams and/or sold to other scammers.

These people are burned over and over again, and yet they still fall for the next get-rich-quick or confidence scheme.

Just watching the show of a psychic entertainer that uses no disclaimers is not going to set up these folks for future scamming. It's just going to give them a better value for their money in the form of an hour of interesting entertainment.

Afterwards, they'll still be trying to reach Miss Cleo for their free Tarot reading.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
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Thoughtreader
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Have you read his book? If you haven't, then perhaps you should before you make statements like that. I am not posting this as a flame to you but it has been my experience that most magicians that cry out against psychics have not even been to a real "reading" before. All they are doing is jumping on the Randii/Swiss bandwagon, which incidentaly is a very easy thing to do. Most have no real idea of what goes on except for what they have read in a few books. A little knowledge is a very dangerous things in the wrong hands.

Again, please do not take this as a flame against you, merely a general comment and observation.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat

Quote:
On 2002-05-07 03:35, Bambaladam wrote:
... A friend of mine says anyone who's buying mr Gellers self-help books on the merit he's great at bending spoons... kind of deserves what they get.

The ability to psychokinemagnotelekinetically bend pieces of metal... does not in any way obvious to me automatically grant any kind of authority as regards the difficult decisions people need to make in their lives...


/bamba
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Thoughtreader
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It doesn't matter whether or not you give them a rational explaination or not. if they want to beleive that you are the devil's son, they will beleive it. the ones that chose to beleive will and the ones that won't, won't. When I was working strictly as a magician, I used to work a Sunday Brunch for many eyars where I had many regular customers come each week to see some "magic". Not only did we have a few tables every now and then that refused to have me near their table to perform but refused my making balloon animals for their kids because it was "illusion" and "not real" and thus the work of the Devil. I'm not making this up folks, this does happen and will to you too if you work regularly.

I had several others that brought friends of theirs to see me work and after that, if I was working, their friends refused to come with them because they were convinced that I could control their minds somehow. Remember that I was working strictly as a magician back then with no allusions to the supernatural.

If they are going to beleive, they will beleive. These are the same people that beleive that everything they see on television must be real. Even if they went to a Brechtian play they would still beleive that what they were seeing was real. There is no amount of talk that will change these peoples minds. All you can do as an entertainer is entertain. Those that love you will, those that hate you will too. That's all part and parcel to show business.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat

Quote:
On 2002-05-07 05:37, vovin wrote:
One thing I think people are overlooking is that when somone see's a effect that they percieve as occult or supernatural. It has deep psychological implications that may possibly seriously effect them. I done a floating bottle cap once that freaked a girl out so bad that she actually cried and to this day won't come near me cause she thinks I am the devil or something. the point is sometimes you have to give people a logical "out" that explains the situation in a realistic manner and makes the effect more possible for them to swallow. I usually go into a big speal about quantum physics and sub atomic particles etc....
Canada's Leading Mentalist
http://www.mindguy.com
AB StageCraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
davekilpatrick
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Okay, here's another question. Who do you think enjoys being entertained by mentalism the most, those who already believe in ESP or those who do not? Each crowd will have both types in it.

I, for one, absolutely LOVE being fooled by a good mental trick. And if it is an effect I'd never have any interest in performing, I'd prefer not knowing the workings of the effect—it's great entertainment to be fooled! (The same is true of magic in general. I don't feel stupid when I'm fooled by a trick. I know hundreds of tricks, but there are thousands out there.)
Bambaladam
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Quote:
On 2002-05-07 12:15, Thoughtreader wrote:
Have you read his book? If you haven't, then perhaps you should before you make statements like that. I am not posting this as a flame to you but it has been my experience that most magicians that cry out against psychics have not even been to a real "reading" before. All they are doing is jumping on the Randii/Swiss bandwagon, which incidentaly is a very easy thing to do. Most have no real idea of what goes on except for what they have read in a few books. A little knowledge is a very dangerous things in the wrong hands.

Again, please do not take this as a flame against you, merely a general comment and observation.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat

Quote:
On 2002-05-07 03:35, Bambaladam wrote:
... A friend of mine says anyone who's buying mr Gellers self-help books on the merit he's great at bending spoons... kind of deserves what they get.

The ability to psychokinemagnotelekinetically bend pieces of metal... does not in any way obvious to me automatically grant any kind of authority as regards the difficult decisions people need to make in their lives...


/bamba



Well, Paul. First of all, no offense taken. This is a forum where people's ideas are treated with the respect they deserve, and I am not likely to misread your post to think you weren't doing that.

Now, if we look at my post again, you'll see I never say the opinion about Mr Gellers books is mine, never say it is correct. You are correct in suspecting I haven't read them, and therefore I do not have any specific points to make about them, save for the fact I do not believe spoonbending alone is a great merit for someone who deals with helping people overcome hurdles in their lives.

And, if you reread my posts in this thread I think you will find I hold a reasonably middle-of-the-road opinion as far as this issue goes. I do believe Randi (and those involved) made an important point with project Alpha. I do not, however, believe that the best way to deal with the Medium/Psychic "scam" is necessarily to battle them the way he tends to. Or to make an immense deal of someone's failure to show up for a challenge. Any scientific mind knows that an experiment that does not take place proves nothing of any kind.

I am also not certain whether or not they (or we) should not be left to our own devices. I often tend to think they/we should. I am, however, certain that AT THE MOMENT, due to concerns regarding ability, conscience and spirit, I choose not to act the psychic. Not for ever, for now. I am fairly convinced most, if not all, of the "scam" is just that, a scam. But not entirely. If it makes sense, I am agnostic in these matters, but with a hefty pinch of scepticism. And an undecided view on the potential benifits the client could reap from a reading.

The points I was trying to make did not actually concern any individuals, but the moral grey area I find myself confronted with when considering what it is we do. And how I deal with it. Which is a bit of both. I believe stunned disbelief (and maybe a little fear) is what we, in a sense, want when we perform, more than money or anything else. The question is how to do that in an "honest" way. Or one that allows you to sleep at night. I do not consider the risk of converting people to dangerous fallacious beliefs to be particularly high, but I also do not consider even a disclaimed performance situation entirely non-problematic. I'm trying to figure out whether there is a difference (I'm referring to the moral aspect here) in performing readings for one or stage performances unless one adopts the admittedly disappointing posture of a trickster. I am not sure there is. And if there isn't, that causes me to wonder in different ways what "honesty" really is. And what is more important, the ends or the means. I have tried to explain or describe the confusion I sometimes experience in this middle ground, not deny anyone else's rights to expression or choice of spiritual fulfillment.

Let me apologise in turn for the defensive tone of voice I have adopted, but while your message was no flame, not specifically directed at me, and I didn't take offense, it did make what I would consider unfair assumptions about my thoughts on these issues. I am sure the fault is mostly mine as I often express my views in a messy hopscotch fashion. I can only hope this reply will clarify things in the manner I intend, a respectful and useful one.

/bamba
saglaser
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Philemon,

No, I don't have any studies showing that there are a huge number of people in the middle. But then, I don't have any studies showing that most people have committed to one side or the other, either. I'm going on the assumption that the people I've met in my life are a reasonable sample of the rest of the population.

I suspect that your experience that most people have committed to an either pro or con viewpoint is in itself an illusion. When you ask people's opinion of psychic phenominon, very few will say straight out, "I don't know" or "I'm undecided." Most do, indeed, lean a bit to one side or the other but are not fully vested in the view. It will come across in wavering language like "I'm skeptical, but I suppose it might be possible," or "Well, when I saw that David Blain guy on TV, my friend told me it was all just tricks but it sure looked like there was something besides just magic tricks going on there."

While these folks use language that indicates a proclivity to believe or disbelieve, the fact is that they can be swayed back across the line, and may change sides more than once in the course of their lifetime.

I agree that one psychic entertainer, with or without disclaimer, may make little difference. But the effect is cumulative.

I disagree completely that "people are either born gullible, or have gullibility thrust upon them at an early age." This is all learned behavior, and behavior can be learned or relearned at any age. And I suspect that the belief that everyone will either believe or disbelieve in accordance with their own personality, no matter what we do, is all too frequently merely an easy way to comfortably avoid taking responsibility for our actions. That's certainly not true in every case, but I believe it is often enough to make me uncomfortable.

Steve
Martin Pulman
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Lighten up.
Its only spoonbending!
hackmonkey
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I agree with Martin somewhat. I enjoy spoonbending and the reactions it gets, but i also get just as strong reactions from some card tricks. If people start getting scared or asking if i have powers etc. All I do is smile like an idiot and say "It's just and illusion" laugh, get them all laughing and get them to buy me a drink. This way they are calmed down and i get drunk for free. Smile Smile
Look behind you...on your left...thats the real world.



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Philemon Vanderbeck
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Quote:
On 2002-05-08 01:54, saglaser wrote:
No, I don't have any studies showing that there are a huge number of people in the middle. But then, I don't have any studies showing that most people have committed to one side or the other, either. I'm going on the assumption that the people I've met in my life are a reasonable sample of the rest of the population.


The studies I'm thinking of are the ones that are regularly trotted out by the skeptical groups to show how gullible the public is.

I remember hearing one on the radio just the other day that stated "80% of people believe in E.S.P." They didn't say how many people were undecided, but I suspect that it's a fairly small percentage.

Quote:
I suspect that your experience that most people have committed to an either pro or con viewpoint is in itself an illusion. When you ask people's opinion of psychic phenominon, very few will say straight out, "I don't know" or "I'm undecided." Most do, indeed, lean a bit to one side or the other but are not fully vested in the view. It will come across in wavering language like "I'm skeptical, but I suppose it might be possible," or "Well, when I saw that David Blain guy on TV, my friend told me it was all just tricks but it sure looked like there was something besides just magic tricks going on there."


If you ask the question as a general blanket statement, then you'll get lots of undecided responses, because most people don't have exact definitions for what constitutes "psychic phenomenon."

But if you ask specific questions such as "Do you believe in ESP?", "...telepathy", "remote viewing", "ghosts", "UFOs", etc., then you'll get fairly specific yes/no responses.

People tend to have rather strong opinions when it comes to matters of personal belief. There are very few people who can consistently keep an open mind about specific unproven phenomenon.

Quote:
I agree that one psychic entertainer, with or without disclaimer, may make little difference. But the effect is cumulative.


Do you have proof of this claim? Has there been a study proving that repeated exposure to simulated psychic phenomenon will increase the gullibility of a particular undecided viewer?

Curiously, the more times I see a particular trick being done, the more likely I am to figure out its workings. Wouldn't the same thing be true in the above case? If I'm truly skeptical (undecided) and start looking for possible trickery, wouldn't seeing several spoon-bending demonstrations by different performers increase my chances of catching how it is done?

Quote:
I disagree completely that "people are either born gullible, or have gullibility thrust upon them at an early age." This is all learned behavior, and behavior can be learned or relearned at any age. And I suspect that the belief that everyone will either believe or disbelieve in accordance with their own personality, no matter what we do, is all too frequently merely an easy way to comfortably avoid taking responsibility for our actions. That's certainly not true in every case, but I believe it is often enough to make me uncomfortable.


We're back to the old nature vs. nurture argument, which I doubt will be settled in our lifetimes.

Personally I believe that our personalities are the sum result of both nature and nurture (in differing percentages dependent on which aspect is being looked at).

But regardless, the quote was a parody referencing Shakespeare's "greatness" quote (from Twelfth Night). Although to be more true to the original, I should've said:

"But be not afraid of gullibility; some are born gullible, some achieve gullibility, and some have gullibility thrust upon them."

:evilgrin:
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
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Jonathan
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Well, first off...it's just spoon bending is kind of offensive to me. I understand what you are saying and it's no fault of you're own. The only reason that statement gets me is a very special person to me surrenedered everything to become a satanist. Eventually she got saved and is now a very active part of our church and a very strong believer and can enjoy many of my effects although she does get nervous. When given her testimony it was due to her seeing someone bend a spoon and it was her quest to be able to have that kind of power over nature that led her into satanism. She bought a ton of books on witchcraft etc. Now, there is more to it than that, yes...she was seeking control over her life due to unpleasant treatment from children and teenagers (her family is wonderful, which helps a bunch). That display of "power" over other things, even a simple spoon, led her into spiritual power. Now we really reached out to her and helped her for many years and she eventually got saved and now hates all things satanic.

I do bend silverware, but one of the reasons I do is because if I had been there and known what was going on (or if she KNEW I could bend spoons and forks she would have asked me) I could have shown her the effect and assured her that there is no spiritual power at work and that no one on earth can do this using anything but science, manipulation, misdirection, illusion, and sleight-of-hand. And if she wanted to have control over such things, knowledge is what she needs and also God is what she needs (which is a whole other ball of wax I don't want to get into here because of our different beliefs, but I will say that I do NOT believe God gives us any "powers" or control but wants us to let Him control us so please don't get the wrong idea there.)

I don't blame mentalists for her decision, but I do believe, because of that, that it is important how we do what we do and that we are careful. We influence people and can be responsible for a decision they make.

Regarding the majority of people are fence-walkers...I would have to agree with this. Most will pick a side but the vast majority of the people I perform for insist (and are proud of) having an open mind. Surveys etc. are a joke anyway. I could get any statistics I wanted to by manipulating the question alone to get the result I want! EASILY! As I'm sure many of you could as well. But it seems the majority of the people after I perform believe somewhat more than they did before and I could convince the majority of people I perform for to lean a little further one way or the other than they did before. But if you ask an honest question about paranormal things, esp etc. most people will believe that it is POSSIBLE that there's some things out there but they don't know if there actually is! On discussions of aliens, ghosts, 6th senses etc. I hear that all the time.

But you are right, usually people will have some sort of a stand one way or the other but are VERY easily pursuaded due to their "open mind" about it. And some effects you'd think the more they see the less they'd believe, but people call theo 3 times a day for years!

Jonathan Grant
Philemon Vanderbeck
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Quote:
On 2002-05-08 16:46, Jonathan wrote:
I don't blame mentalists for her decision, but I do believe, because of that, that it is important how we do what we do and that we are careful. We influence people and can be responsible for a decision they make.


I am of the opinion that a person is solely responsible for the decisions that they make.

To think otherwise, is to deny free will.

Why does it seem that Americans have become a "blame someone else for my problems" society?
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician
"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
saglaser
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> But if you ask specific questions such as
> "Do you believe in ESP?", "... telepathy",
> "remote viewing", "ghosts", "UFOs", etc., then
> you'll get fairly specific yes/no responses.

Sure you will, but, as Jonathan already noted, exactly what responses you get will be largely determined by exactly how you ask the question. And when you ask, as well. There's an awful lot of the sort of linguistic deception we all rely upon going on in those surveys -- much of it entirely unintentional. It would not be difficult to create two surveys that look fair but evoke widely different results. So I take most of those "studies" with a fairly large chunk of halite -- especially when presented by a group with an axe to grind. And that certainly includes the skeptics.

>> I agree that one psychic entertainer, with or
>> without disclaimer, may make little difference.
>> But the effect is cumulative.
-------------------------------------

> Do you have proof of this claim? Has there been a
> study proving that repeated exposure to simulated
> psychic phenomenon will increase the gullibility
> of a particular undecided viewer?

Again, I can't point you to any relevant studies but they shouldn't be hard to find if anybody wished to make the effort. The propensity of people to increase belief in a falsehood with increased repetitions from a multiple sources has been well documented in both history and psychology. It is a large part, for example, of what's become known as the Big Lie principle.

> Curiously, the more times I see a particular trick
> being done, the more likely I am to figure out its
> workings. Wouldn't the same thing be true in the
> above case?

I very much doubt that it would. When you see a miraculous-appearing event, you look at it with a mentalist/magician mindset. You analyse what you see in a way that a layperson would not. A person inexperienced in magical principles is much more likely to be repeatedly taken in to the point where another alternative isn't even considered, unless he witnesses the performance of an effect inept enough to evoke suspicion.

> Personally I believe that our personalities are the
> sum result of both nature and nurture (in differing
> percentages dependent on which aspect is being looked at).

Here we agree. I'm just not convinced that the sort of gullability we're discussing here has more to do with personality than it does with education and experience. I'm sure both come into play but I suspect that, as far as the big picture is concerned, native personality is the minor component.

BTW, I did recognize the literary illusion. I think old Wild Bill Shakespeare had it right concerning greatness, but I remain skeptical that it applies to gullability. Smile

> I am of the opinion that a person is solely responsible
> for the decisions that they make.
>
> To think otherwise, is to deny free will.

That's true enough if you're talking about an informed decision. When the decision is based on false information, however, the person who knowingly falsified the information must have a share in the responsibility. The alternative is to hold that any company, for example, can make any lies they want to about their products and the purchaser is solely responsible for the decision to buy and be cheated.

BTW, considering the verbiage I've expended on this side of the argument, some might conclude that I am outright opposed to a performance that doesn't include a disclaimer, so I want to be clear on that point. My few public mentalist performances have disclaimed real psychic ability because any other approach would have been contrary to my goals in those performances. But I can easily see myself giving a performance where I leave the matter utterly ambiguous. Should I do so, however, I would be aware of the risks and would understand that my decision might have consequences I would prefer to avoid.

My gripe is not with those who have made the decision to perform without disclaimer, but with those who have done so cavalierly, pretending that the decision is without repercussions or does not matter. The decision is a valid one, but not one to be made lightly.
Jonathan
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I shouldn't be getting into this as I'm getting pretty upset thinking about her past. And I can understand why you believe that as an athiest, but as a Christian the bible talks a lot about us being responsible for others. We are held accountable if we cause someone to fall. We have free will, but if someone is responsible for warping their view of reality and they make those decisions based on something they believe to be true when it is not then it is unfair to everyone!

Sorry, I really don't want to start an arguement here so I'll stop.

Jonathan Grant
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Listen people, I think everyone in this topic has made valid points to an extent but you do all seem to take ethics to a huge level.. When any mentalist performs they have to lie as if they didn't when asked how do you do that you'd explain the entire workings of an effect, but we don't, some try to steer around the subject like a politician would when asked an awkward question others have their favourite explaination.. No one is right or wrong, Marc Salem presents his effects as reading people, eye movement, body language, vocal tone etc etc etc he uses none of that in his act but he would swear blind that is how he does it... Derren Brown say's it's all done through psychology and suggestion it isn't... Geller says it's via the power of the mind... which can be tricky? There is a fine line with the mind power thing one example that is not ethical in my humble opinion is to fly over Long Island trying to find a black box from a plane crash via mind powers which someone did.. but how do we know this actually happened? the person in question has exagerated many stories and there is no way to check unless you worked for the FBI, CIA or KGB and I doubt they even know what is going on all the time in their own offices...
People believe many things that are based on faith, life after death, Tarot, Star Signs, Heaven & Hell.. No one is ever going to be able to change that.. My advice is this (for what it's worth) Just tell them you are trained to see things they might not see, do things they may not... just like a Brain Surgeon could save a life or clear a tumor which is something none of us could do. For example I know nothing about Law or the Legal system but that doesn't make me stupid or less of a person I just haven't trained in that field just like most of my audiences have not trained in the paranormal. Geller had a great line and that is that anyone could do what he was doing but you had to train your mind and that is actually true.. every time we read a book or watch a Banachek video we are expanding our knowledge and thus traing our minds... Andy Nyman has a great saying at the start and end of his act that is quick to the point and clear..
If you don't want to lie outright then use a line ala Larry Becker, Banachek etc... but in my VERY Humble opinion I prefer to not label myself, I let them do that... If they think it's power .....okay.... Trickery..... okay.... I just want to do a good performance and for the audience to enjoy themselves..... When I had a discussion with Larry Becker during a private seminar I mentioned that I liked the 5 senses to create the illusion of a 6th but I don't want my audiences to feel pushed to a decision... so I told Mr Becker what I say and he liked it which was a huge compliment to me as Mr Becker is an absolute star and if any of you get the chance to speak mentalism with him do as he is full of knowledge and experience (and he used playing cards!)

I think we should all take a deep breath and count to ten ..... it really isn't a big deal......
:rotf:
It's not goodbye, just see you later...
Jonathan
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Well, it is a big deal to some of us depending on our beliefs. But I understand where you're coming from.

I was reading the forward from Teller on Banachek's book PS. He said that it is cheap to pretend to have real powers and that it is the easy way out and not what a professional mentalist is all about. He said that if you went to the moon and there was no gravity and you levitated people wouldn't care because of COURSE you can levitate! THere's no gravity! He says it's like that with mentalism, what's the performance value in doing something you say is actually possible. Of course you can read my mind, you can read minds!

I disagree with this entirely. WHile I don't claim to have powers, people spend a LOT of time and money to go into outerspace so they CAN see and experience no gravity. What about the millionaire that gave a huge amount of money to be taken into space? If they know you are using trickery to create the effects wouldn't the reaction be, big deal, it isn't real you are just playing a trick on me? No, but I would come closer to thinking that than thinking people wouldn't be amazed at extraordinary powers just because they believe you actually have them. Those are the people who are most entertained (by someone who CLAIMS to have powers).

There are many reasons, but I thought it was applicable to the convo.

JOnathan Grant
Vision
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Profile of Vision
Juggling is possible for everyone to learn, just need the right amount of practise, and yet people find it amusing. If there are tricks, people can learn them aswell. "Psychics" display something that is rare and very special.
And I agree with Philemon, if I remember correctly, everyone is in the end the only one responsive for their actions. Even if someone is misguiding you, you have to be able to think for yourself. Not buy everything being said to you, something Americans isnt that very good at Smile

it's like an ex-girlfriend, that blamed me when she decided to break up with her then present boyfriend. She started to like me, and that's her problem.

Anyhow, I usually go with the reaction I get. If they believe it's for real, sure then it's for real, if they are sceptics then what I do is not for real. But I dont think anyone can give an ultimate answer to the question, it's something that each and everyone must decide for themselves...

Goodnight,
Daniel Young
www.awonderfulmind.blogspot.com
check it out for new products.
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