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christopher carter Special user 660 Posts |
I guess I'm old, because it still sounds like stealing to me. But since everybody who does download is happy to explain that it's OK because the record companies are filthy rich, I have a question: What exactly is the profitability of a major record company? I know that the actual cost to reproduce a CD isn't high, but obviously money goes out for advertising and distribution. Also, I would assume that for every artist they make a killing from, there are several they lose money on. So what are the real percentages?
--Chris |
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Chris Berry Special user 831 Posts |
Kernel,
Quote: Honestly, that is not part of the issue at all. Twelve-year-old girls are CONSUMERS. They also purchase CDs. Yes it might sound amazing but they do (my little sister does ALL the time!). If the newest boy band puts out a CD what are 12-year-old girls supposed to do? Run into the nearest Best Buy or Circuit City, grab the CD and hightail it out of the store before security chases them down?
...maybe they would seek a solution that doesn't end up taking money away from 12-year-old girls EVERYONE in this forum and in the rest of the world OBVIOUSLY feels bad for stealing the music which is why you keep using the same weak excuses to try and "justify" your theft. Record companies do have pretty good customer relationships. If they didn't then any and all bands would lose their contracts immediately. It seems you guys want the CDs with the song you like for free because you don't want any of the bad songs. Well guess what? GREAT ARTISTS MAKE BAD SONGS! Fact of life. You are NEVER going to like ALL of their songs. Deal with it. Theft is theft. There are no grey areas. Marshall Thornside has a great point, she after all, being a musician. Just because they have bigger nicer houses, doesn't give you any right to steal from their livelihood. To put it bluntly: life sucks sometimes but it gives you NO reason to steal! Chris |
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Jordan Piper Veteran user British Columbia, Canada 309 Posts |
Quote: I was referring to the RIAA lawsuit filed against a twelve-year-old girl.On 2003-09-16 01:12, Seismic wrote: |
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kihei kid Inner circle Dog House 1039 Posts |
Magix, tisk-tisk. What you define as rationalizing, I define, as living in the real world. Everything I wrote is true with the exception of the last sentence, which IMHO “is criminal”. Millions upon millions of people download music on a daily basis and less than one percent of them are going to face a lawsuit.
How many of those people will be family members or friends that have downloaded music on their computers? If I were to venture a guess the number would be zero. This is a clear and unmistakable double standard. What they are saying is that they will bring down the hammer, but don’t worry son or daughter or best friend it won’t be on you. If they don’t have the guts to go after people in their own backyards then don’t come over and tell me how to mow mine. This is the moronic big bully on the block shaking down the one or two little nerd kids for some lunch money meanwhile leaving his brother, sisters and friends alone. All the while disguised as an innocent bystander that has never done anything wrong himself, a victim is what the poor, poor RIAA is I tell you. What audacity the consumer has, to have built their multi million-dollar empire and now (because of technology) sit at home and get some freebies. They were a victim alright, a victim of not having enough foresight to stay pace with rapidly changing times. So what’s their solution? Sue the consumer (a minute and handpicked percentage) into doing what they want until they can catch up with technology and straighten out the mess they got themselves into. How incredibly brilliant they look suing senior citizens and children and whoever they pick and choose along the way, taking something as beautiful as music and turning into something as ugly as a lawsuit. The upshot of this three-ring circus is that in the long run they more than likely will lose MORE money in lawyer fees and court costs than they will ever end up collecting. When all they had to do was to come up with a well-designed plan that is amicable for them and the consumer, who, for some unexplained reason are managing to alienate. Bravo, bravo recording industry, you have done a marvelous job of biting the hand that feeds you. And in my case, a hand that has been feeding you for many, many years.
In loving memory of Hughie Thomasson 1952-2007.
You brought something beautiful to this world, you touched my heart, my soul and my life. You will be greatly missed. Until we meet again “my old friend”. |
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jonesc2ii Loyal user Oxford, England 235 Posts |
Hands up anyone who never used their VCR to tape something off the TV.
Well, it's EXACTLY the same offence, look forward to your own lawsuit soon if you support the RIAA in this action. I was just searching for something else when I found this which I think may have some relevence: Auntie's digital revelation "The BBC's director-general announced plans this week to embrace Napster-style file sharing to make its archives free for licence payers... But planning for 2016 in today's media world is proving to be an impossible task. Why, notes one of the great and the good, what about this Napster business? With people copying music and television and film and distributing them among themselves for free, the whole business model on which commercial broadcasting depends could be undermined by 2016. It could... He pauses. 'Wait a minute. Why do we care about them sharing our programmes?' It's a scene of revelation that has, quietly but steadily, recurred across the corporation for the past two years. And in the last few months, fuelled by transatlantic visits from net advocates such as Stanford professor Lawrence Lessig and the Library of Congress's internet archivist, Brewster Kahle, the observation has been nudged into a full-scale mission for the BBC: a mission whose first fruit was announced last Sunday by the corporation's director-general, Greg Dyke."
www.ixyl.co.uk/forums - for when you fancy a debate or a quiet chat.
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Magix Elite user 432 Posts |
Quote: Actually, it's different. Years ago when VCRs were first gaining popularity the issue was raised, and if I'm not mistaken, the courts ruled that once it hits the airwaves, it becomes public domain.
On 2003-09-16 05:58, jonesc2ii wrote: |
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jonesc2ii Loyal user Oxford, England 235 Posts |
Not in the UK. I don't know about the rest of the world, but here it is the same offense.
Besides, regardless of the law, is it morally wrong to download a single piece of music if it's okay to record the same music with pictures? And the "quality" argument doesn't hold much water with me. I would almost invariably prefer to watch a live performance than have the same song in crystal clear digital surround sound.
www.ixyl.co.uk/forums - for when you fancy a debate or a quiet chat.
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Welshwizard Loyal user Wales 292 Posts |
Recording off TV is definitely illegal here in the UK and has been for about two years. There was a final ruling I remember. Recording radio is illegal as well I think.
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hkwiles Special user Howard Wiles 797 Posts |
If you can't video record programmes from the TV...what else exactly are you supposed to record?
Or put another way, what did the manufacturers of VCRs intend them to be used for? Remember, I'm talking about recording not simply playing back. Howard |
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Ignore me... Loyal user 230 Posts |
You guys make me chuckle. I especially like reading about how some have a well developed sense of entitlement.
Is it your right to take something? Does a creator have the right to profit from a creation? Can the creator sell those rights to someone else? I'm aware that lots of lazy sods don't make the effort to understand artists depending on the fruits of their labours. "Why buy this magic video if I can just make a copy? L&L is a huge corporation, so they aren't hurt if I just steal it, right?" Fortunately, there are laws that prohibit stealing and piracy. Howard, this next bit will hopefully clear things up for you. For those confused over what fair dealing (UK) or fair use (USA) is, it allows folks to make copies for their own use. It does NOT, however, allow one to make copies and distribute them for free on demand. Home recording from the primary source is not the problem or issue. Programmes and music can be recorded legally, contrary to what Welshwizard states. However, one can not buy a DVD and distribute copies freely. Those confused about what fair dealing/fair use means should do a little reading. jonesc2ii has also confused the issue, by misunderstanding the difference between fair dealing home recording and distribution of pirated material. Welshwizard, if you have a source that contradicts UK law as given on the government IP website, please give a link. http://www.benedict.com/info/fairUse/fairUse.asp http://www.intellectual-property.gov.uk I'm just curious what valuable things the piracy advocates have given to the world that derive from their OWN efforts? On other forums, I have offered to buy dinner at an expensive restaurant for folks who had put things into the public domain that they had developed and that were equal in quality to what they were pirating/stealing. Unfortunately, no one ever came forward. |
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hkwiles Special user Howard Wiles 797 Posts |
Ignore me,
Thanks, that it exactly as I understood the law to be...otherwise, as I intimated, there is no application for the recording side of a VCR. Similarly even if you have bought a record, you are not supposed to play it publicly and charge people to hear it with out having a licence. Howard |
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jonesc2ii Loyal user Oxford, England 235 Posts |
Legally, maybe, but can you explain the difference in moral values?
I wish people wouldn't make assumptions. I have never actually downloaded music, movies or anything else I'm not legally entitled to. But I frequently use my VCR (and now my PC) to record music videos and concerts. I stay within the law (according to Ignore me), but I don't feel in anyway superior to those who download music. Also, this thread started out discussing the record industry suing some downloaders. This is IMO a very bad idea and I hope it backfires. This thread proves one thing, it's very easy to confuse the issue and get sidetracked, isn't it? The issue is not about the letter of the law, it's about the record industry growing up and learning to deal with the realities of a modern world that it helped create.
www.ixyl.co.uk/forums - for when you fancy a debate or a quiet chat.
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Jordan Piper Veteran user British Columbia, Canada 309 Posts |
Quote: Thank you jonesc2ii. That was the initial intent of this topic.On 2003-09-16 17:37, jonesc2ii wrote: |
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pezgod New user Ohio 94 Posts |
I don't know if anybody brought this up yet. I download music..heck, I also download Movies, and TV shows. (I pay $15.00 a month for newsgroup access) If I like the song, I'll buy the CD. If I like the Movie, I'll see it in the theater (if I haven't already done so) or buy the DVD. Same with the TV shows, I'll buy them if/when they get released on DVD. There is a reason that the record industry is loosing money, and it isn't because of downloads. It's because the music SUCKS! There are not too many good bands out there today. Also, and this is just my own opinion...if the music industry is against the whole file sharing thing, then why would MP3 players be in production? Sony makes records, and has commercials to buy their MP3 player. That just makes you want to go download more songs, so you can buy sony's MP3 player, and load them into it. Anyway, that's my little thought on that. Time for me to head off to class. (I hope I don't get sued....as a college student with $30.00 in the bank, they wouldn't get too much!!)
Later, Kevin |
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