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OTTOEMEZZO Special user 544 Posts |
Agree or disagree?
"The Swan Song" is my last release to the mentalism community. Only a few copies remain!
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Prager Inner circle e-Mentalism.com 1858 Posts |
Sadly, I have to agree.
Jose Prager
The man who knows how to amuse and mystify www.e-mentalism.com Secret products for mentalists. |
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5925 Posts |
Disagree. Mentalism has become clogged with magicians doing mental magic, self-deluded into believing they are mentalists, and all patting each other on the back at what fine Mentalists they are.
At the same time actual Mentalists are out there performing actual Mentalism. The nice thing is audiences can tell the difference. Even when they see similar effects! |
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12059 Posts |
Only when magicians do it.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Tom has hit the nail right on the head.
It is not mentalism that is changing, it is the number of magicians who think they are doing mentalism that is causing that misconception. Good thoughts, Bob |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
There are plenty of guys doing quality mentalism that is nothing like magic. Its the route that attracts me.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-05 15:04, Tom Cutts wrote: Wow, how eloquently stated. This says it all exactly. Of course the ones who will not get or understand this... |
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
Tom Cutts and Bob Cassidy get my vote.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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Tony Razzano Inner circle South River, NJ 1600 Posts |
Mine too. there may be a perception problem among the general public, though. If their only experience with mentalism is with one of these magicians, they might perceive ALL of us to be hacks based on their bad experience with the magician who thinks he is a mentalist. Hopefully, our DVDs will show how good we are. but I have run into some who won't even look at my DVD because of a bad experience with a "mentalist".
Best regards,
<BR>Tony Razzano, Past President, PEA Winner of the PEA"s Bascom Jones and Bob Haines Awards |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Magicians attempting to become Mentalists is more like that It's becoming quite easy to see these types around lately - talking about and seeking info about conventions, patter, traveling, life-of-the-party, etc. Mentalists, or at least most Mentalists I know would never think like that.
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sbays Inner circle Burbank, CA 1065 Posts |
True Story:
A few months ago at a local TGIF restaurant, the "House Magician" was there performing. He eventually made his way around to our table of six. I was looking forward to seeing what the guy had to offer. The guy starts out with .. wait for it .... yep sponge bunnies, then progresses to a rather descent ambitious card routine, then explains that he is actually a mentalist, but performs at the restaurant on his off time. He hands a coin envelope to one of the females in our party, asks her to look inside, sees that it is empty, puts it aside. He moves into a Name/Place "Type" of routine (Bob ... you would have strangled the lad), and after forecasting the name, he has the girl look into the envelope to see a billet in there with the place written on it. So it magically just appeared in there. He finishes off his set with Garret's Stand up Monte, which he did quite well. This guys strengths are in his magic. He was entertaining and technically proficient. But he just lost it all when he moved onto the Mentalism track. Nuff said I think. Draw your own conclusions.
"Opportunity may only knock once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
"Actually a mentalist"???
You're right, I would have strangled him right there! (Not really. To restrain myself, I probably would have gone outside for a cigarette until after he was finished.) :eek: |
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Paul Shirley Inner circle Melbourne, Australia 1206 Posts |
@Tom. Spot on!! Amen.
@Tony. You are right of course... being that I don't perform mentalism professionally... I have the luxury of choosing the right time, and people to perform for. And, if I do my job correctly... they don't even know they are watching a performance per se... much less know what mentalism even is... as I never mention the word. |
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
Does the larger number of performers doing mentalism CHANGE what mentalism is? Nope.
Magicians spend hours...okay SOME magicians...spend hours trying to figure out what they can put into "the act" that will elevate it, carry them to that splendid place where they become a brand -- something unique. Most of them do not see "mentalism" as a separate discipline. While I completely understand the rancor this will cause in some -- it's a fact. If magicians see any distinction at all, they are most likely to shrug and say that mentalism offers a whole new set of "tricks." I think most magicians view mentalism as a subset of magic...if they think about it at all. (Are we having this discussion on The Mentalist Café?) A magician views "bits" and "tricks" strung together to create an act. If it's a good effect that suits the act...one that the audience enjoys...he's going to use it. This is why you will see them doing MOABT and then an armchopper routine. Never mind that the whole performance is reduced to "tricks." The magician (and his audiences) already view everything taking place on-stage as a "trick." If the effect is not easily dissected by an audience entertained by its presentation -- it works...and they couldn't care less if you are offended by it. I am not condoning it. But to be completely honest -- I personally barely saw any distinction myself between "magic" and "mentalism" for years. I simply never thought about it. It's only since I have started performing mentalism as mentalism -- and doing full mentalism programs -- that I understand in my heart the fundamental and basic difference between the two...and exactly why combining both in the same show is both ineffective and professionally offensive. I think of it like Coca Cola and Sprite. They both taste good -- but you don't want to blend them into the same glass because, while the final result is drinkable, it isn't particularly palatable. Mentalism has been very much the 'flavor of the month' among many magicians. It's loaded with attractions: it's rarely prop-heavy, it's trendy and much of it doesn't require months of finger twisting sleights to get done. (Besides: chicks dig it. ) This is why many magicians view mentalism as relatively easy to do. I can hear the swords being drawn and the muttering out there. Relax. I'm just stating the facts. Many magicians are dedicated to their acts -- the same way mentalists are. But a vastly larger number aren't. You'd be surprised at how many of these guys purchase a prop and are off performing it a few hours later. "Easy to do" in a product pitch almost assures sales. I saw a magic clown doing MOABT. Seriously. Does mentalism itself change? No. I don't think the statement that someone performing a mentalism effect is a mentalist is any more believable than saying anyone on the back of a horse is a pro jockey. I DO think the differences between mentalism and magic are profoundly different. And I believe the audiences know it too. The entire slant...the presentation...the very PURPOSE of the acts are completely different. This singular thought, patently obvious to mentalists, is not likely to even occur to the average magician. And there are a LOT more magicians out there than mentalists. A whole LOT more. Magicians are notoriously fickle -- and anyone who has seen the herd mentality at a magic convention knows that they flock to the latest greatest whatever. Inevitably mentalism MUST lose some of its appeal to magicians because, in order to be effective, mentalism requires MUCH more work than a standard magic effect. Not a lot of magicians are willing to put in that work -- and the ones that are are on their way OUT of magic and into mentalism. I'm one of these. So...no. Mentalism isn't becoming more like magic. Mentalism doesn't change. But I rather suspect mentalism is changing magic...for however long it remains popular among magicians. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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W. Mercury New user 80 Posts |
So if one does magic tricks and mentalism effects, one cannot call himself/herself a mentalist?
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
So many magicians do not understand mentalism. They admit they are performing a magic trick when actually doing something that involves mentalism. Some magicians are just too lazy to study mentalism. They think reading minds is a magic trick. A lot of laypeople think they know what they are doing.
The ones who studied both know what the difference is. They can perform magic, mentalism and mental magic. The same difference deals with being a psychic and mentalist. People think they are the same. |
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RileyG Special user Las Vegas 840 Posts |
Magicians Guilt, Disclaimers, Mental Illusions, etc... And people wonder why I and others have never/do not associate with magicians or attended magic meetings. With that being said, I am a member of the IBM and SAM, and have friends that are magicians (famous & not so famous), I just don't go to their meetings or gatherings, nor perform magic tricks. I only do MENTALISM and not Mental Magic, there is a difference...
Yes, ESP is real and many of us know this as we all have it deep down in our primal beings and thoughts. |
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G. Batson Regular user 147 Posts |
Audiences, radio interviewers, tv hosts still call them TRICKS after seeing a mentalist. This conversation only matters to performers not audiences.
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-05 22:40, W. Mercury wrote: Nope. Not if they are in the same show. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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RileyG Special user Las Vegas 840 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-05 23:50, G. Batson wrote: never happened to me, or a few others on air. must be in the marketing, and or pre-show host or producer interviews... |
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