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Al Angello
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If we didn't have money men would still envy other men that have a more beautiful wife, so we will move from who has the most money to who has the finest things.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2011-12-12 10:43, BillMcCloskey wrote:
More interesting are people who purposefully reduce their reliance on money in order to live a freer lifestyle. There was a recent story about a family of 4 in California, in a suburb of LA, that converted the property into a farm that they feed themselves with and sold the extra for the money that they needed to live on. Their cars ran on recycled food oil. No one in the family worked, but they all seem to lead contented lives, and certainly ate well.

I wish them well (sincerely), but I wonder what will happen should any of them, say, develop a life-threatening medical condition, or suffer a catastrophic accident.
S2000magician
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Personally, I don't need any money; it's all the people I owe who need money.
GaryLee
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I'd still be broke, and still be working for peanuts!
Vlad_77
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It was mentioned some posts back that in heaven people could do whatever they want and that eventually people would cease to do anything because there was no incentive. I find this troubling. If money is the prime incentive to do anything then our priorities are REALLY messed up.

Yes, I am an idealist and I am unashamed to state that. Yes, the future that people like Roddenberry and Straczynski may seem quite unrealistic to us, but, to have the idea - the vision - I believe makes it possible. Remember the scene in The Shawshank Redemption when Andy Dufresne returns from the hole after being put there for broadcasting Mozart? He stated that he had the music to keep him company in solitary and that was something they could never take from him. That is a powerful lesson IMHO. All the money in the world cannot buy back even a nanosecond of our lives and all the riches that ever were, are and will be of all kings, queens, and emperors are but pauper's wages compared to even one iota of knowledge that we can acquire every moment of everyday.

I want TIME, not money. I want to know everything - the sacred and the profane. Yes in a sense that is quite Epicurean yet I am quite Stoic about the notion. Our perspective is colored by our existence. Money seems necessary because for eons we have been made to believe that it is so. Yet for all the apparent reasons for war, the real reason for every single war has been economic. And while countries find new ways to annihilate other countries to get what they have, miracles happen every second but the specter of the euro, pound, dollar, peso, yen, etc., blinds us. Success is so often defined by the size of one's bank account. How pitifully narrow such a view is! Look at a night sky or a forest or yourself and see what is really important - real wealth is there staring right back at you.

Some may argue that money would allow me the time I so desire. I would reply that such an assertion is based only on one paradigm.

I do not agree that there will always be haves and have nots because money is an artificial thing. Whether you call the personage God, Thor, Brahma, Goddess, or perhaps you might be one of the many that believe we are an accident, one thing remains clear and that is the fact that WE created the haves and have nots.

I am realistic enough to believe that I will not see the world that utopians envision in my life time. In my 36 years however I have seen many positive steps toward these possible futures. The problem is that the greatest of our visionaries like Christ, Lincoln, and Gandhi, are killed because THEIR message threatens the status quo. But their messages cannot be silenced and their messages have reach so many and those messages are beyond the value of all material riches.

John D. Rockefeller was notoriously penurious. He would tip waiters a mere dime - IF the waiters were lucky. Yet, on his death bed, Rockefeller said that he would give his entire fortune for just ten more minutes.

Ahimsa,
Vlad
Vlad_77
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S2000 asked a question that intrigued me concerning the family that has been sustaining itself. He asked, "but I wonder what will happen should any of them, say, develop a life-threatening medical condition, or suffer a catastrophic accident."

Money has placed an artificial value on human life. It states that if you cannot pay, your life is not worth saving. In this world of money, it would be a catastrophe for this family I am certain and I pray that such a calamity does not visit them. But the deeper question is why people are left to suffer simply because they do not have the requisite amount of green bits of paper?

Then again, lives have been sold for 40 pieces of silver so I suppose my question is pointless. If God Incarnate is only worth 40 pieces of silver, then what chance has anyone else?

Ahimsa,
Vlad
Dennis Michael
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Very insightful Vlad.

There is truth in the saying. "Money is the root of all evil."

I've been in a position where my choice was money or health, and when your breath is taken away, money is meaningless.

The future will be the cost of your life when it comes to universal health. A time will come where the decision will be made on the cost to keep you alive is not financially feasible, so you are to die. The "handwriting is on the wall" but so many are wearing blinders.

Right now we print phoney money and it does have purchase power. At what time does it become worthless?

Just some things to think about is a world where money rules.
Dennis Michael
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2011-12-13 11:14, Dennis Michael wrote:
Very insightful Vlad.

There is truth in the saying. "Money is the root of all evil."



The line comes from St. Paul's first letter to Timothy (1 Timothy 6)

Quote:
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.


It's a lovely, rich passage.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2011-12-13 11:54, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-13 11:14, Dennis Michael wrote:
There is truth in the saying. "Money is the root of all evil."

The line comes from St. Paul's first letter to Timothy (1 Timothy 6)

. . . the love of money is the root of all evil . . . .

Note that it's not money that's the root of all evil; it's the love of money that's the root of all evil.
critter
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Quote:
On 2011-12-13 12:58, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-13 11:54, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-13 11:14, Dennis Michael wrote:
There is truth in the saying. "Money is the root of all evil."

The line comes from St. Paul's first letter to Timothy (1 Timothy 6)

. . . the love of money is the root of all evil . . . .

Note that it's not money that's the root of all evil; it's the love of money that's the root of all evil.


Well then I'm safe. I only love the stuff that money buys me.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Dannydoyle
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I hasten to point out that those without money die at an even quicker rate don't they?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Steve_Mollett
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Eh, so I've made
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Not necessarily.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Pakar Ilusi
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I am happy to take all the money you guys want to part with, in order to live a more meaningful, fulfilled and contented life.

I see it as my service to my fellow man (and woman Smile)...

Let ME bear your burden.

Let ME take this heaviness off of your hearts and your weary shoulders.

Let ME have those sleepless nights, not knowing where to turn to, to get all that baggage of filthy currency off of your hands.

Just PM me for the transfer details... Smile

Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Dennis Michael
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Pakar,

What good would it be in a world without money? Can't spend it.
Dennis Michael
EsnRedshirt
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Looking at the original post, the fact that there's no money in Star Trek is really not a cultural thing- it's directly related to their technology. The Federation has somehow managed to figure out how to harness an unlimited power supply and has near infinite computational power. They can create anything, near-instantly, using replicator technology. How can you even judge monetary value when you can create gold? At that point, it's better for society to just give up on money- there's no point in even trying to stop counterfeitors anymore. But why bother to counterfeit money anyway, when anything you desire can be created (even people, to some extent, via the holodeck.) They've even managed to cure most diseases. Heck, in theory, you can simply reconstitute someone from their base molecules using transporter technology.

Why worry about something as petty as money in a society like that?
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2011-12-14 02:22, Dennis Michael wrote:
Pakar,

What good would it be in a world without money? Can't spend it.


Don't worry, I have plans... Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Dennis Michael
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EsnRedshirt,

This was my original point. What would you do if you could create anything, even an audience for your show and program them to like it.

A world without money eliminates the greed factor that dominates "man" today.
Dennis Michael
Intrepid
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I doubt substituting a barter system for a monetary system would eliminate greed. There will still be people vying to receive more than they contribute.
Bob
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2011-12-15 05:54, Dennis Michael wrote:
A world without money eliminates the greed factor that dominates "man" today.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't; it simply eliminates a handy method of measuring one's wealth.

I'm sure that John Lennon wrote "imagine no possessions" instead of "imagine no money" for reasons deeper than the mere number of syllables.
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2011-12-14 12:06, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Looking at the original post, the fact that there's no money in Star Trek is really not a cultural thing- it's directly related to their technology. The Federation has somehow managed to figure out how to harness an unlimited power supply and has near infinite computational power. They can create anything, near-instantly, using replicator technology. How can you even judge monetary value when you can create gold? At that point, it's better for society to just give up on money- there's no point in even trying to stop counterfeitors anymore. But why bother to counterfeit money anyway, when anything you desire can be created (even people, to some extent, via the holodeck.) They've even managed to cure most diseases. Heck, in theory, you can simply reconstitute someone from their base molecules using transporter technology.

Why worry about something as petty as money in a society like that?


Of course, then there's the thought that in "Mudd's Women," Harry Mudd convinces his three beauties to try and hook up with "lithium miners, lonely rich lithium miners!" So somewhere out there there is some form of exchange.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
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