The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A World without Money? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20614 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 08:48, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 05:54, Dennis Michael wrote:
A world without money eliminates the greed factor that dominates "man" today.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't; it simply eliminates a handy method of measuring one's wealth.

I'm sure that John Lennon wrote "imagine no possessions" instead of "imagine no money" for reasons deeper than the mere number of syllables.


Yea I found it ironic that a man who wrote "imagine no possessions" had so darn many of them.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20614 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 05:54, Dennis Michael wrote:
EsnRedshirt,

This was my original point. What would you do if you could create anything, even an audience for your show and program them to like it.

A world without money eliminates the greed factor that dominates "man" today.


So your claim, if I understand your last sentnece, is that money is what creates "greed"? Is that right? Greed and envy? Seriously?

To be blunt I believe this world you propose would steal my soul.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
EsnRedshirt
View Profile
Special user
Newark, CA
895 Posts

Profile of EsnRedshirt
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 05:54, Dennis Michael wrote:
EsnRedshirt,

This was my original point. What would you do if you could create anything, even an audience for your show and program them to like it.

A world without money eliminates the greed factor that dominates "man" today.

Pretty much. There would still be the fame/reknown factor one gets by inventing or performing something novel- but that's arguably a benefit to society. I think there would be two types of people in a cashless, Star Trek society- the people who would strive to better themselves and their society, and the hedonists. We never really see the hedonists on Star Trek, probably because they don't have the temperment to enter the Star Fleet, but I assume they might make up a sizable portion of the population. Would the achievers quietly resent the hedonists? Then again, maybe the hedonists would end up culling themselves from society through a sort of Lotus Eater syndrome- if you spend all your time in a holodeck, you're probably not going to have much impact on society at all, either positive or negative. Or maybe the hedonists enter politics... Smile

I do know, personally, it would be nice to be able to spend all my time on my hobbies, learning and creating things. So I'd probably strive to be an achiever. With the occasional lapse into hedonism (though to be fair, we even see this among the Enterprise crew from time to time.)
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
EsnRedshirt
View Profile
Special user
Newark, CA
895 Posts

Profile of EsnRedshirt
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 10:49, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 05:54, Dennis Michael wrote:
EsnRedshirt,

This was my original point. What would you do if you could create anything, even an audience for your show and program them to like it.

A world without money eliminates the greed factor that dominates "man" today.


So your claim, if I understand your last sentnece, is that money is what creates "greed"? Is that right? Greed and envy? Seriously?

To be blunt I believe this world you propose would steal my soul.
Love of money is one thing that creates greed. So eliminating money would eliminate one aspect of that vice. Then again, to quote Terry Pratchett- “Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things.” In a Star Trek society, only real people would be unattainable without effort, so I'm sure we'd see a big surge of coveting of neighbors' wives, so to speak.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
S2000magician
View Profile
Inner circle
Yorba Linda, CA
3465 Posts

Profile of S2000magician
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 10:48, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 08:48, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 05:54, Dennis Michael wrote:
A world without money eliminates the greed factor that dominates "man" today.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't; it simply eliminates a handy method of measuring one's wealth.

I'm sure that John Lennon wrote "imagine no possessions" instead of "imagine no money" for reasons deeper than the mere number of syllables.

Yea I found it ironic that a man who wrote "imagine no possessions" had so darn many of them.

But a good imagination, apparently.

He also wrote, "All You Need Is Love". Once you're a bazillionaire, that is.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20614 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Vice will be there no matter what utopian dreams people want to put forth. It is a Yin Yang thing. How can you appreciate virtue in the absence of vice? Not a tough concept.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20614 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
What do you do in Utopia when someone manages to accidently create something people want and that person does not want to "give it away"? A person who does not want to participate in your UTOPIA and then simply starts to sort of create money? What then?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
EsnRedshirt
View Profile
Special user
Newark, CA
895 Posts

Profile of EsnRedshirt
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 11:20, Dannydoyle wrote:
What do you do in Utopia when someone manages to accidently create something people want and that person does not want to "give it away"? A person who does not want to participate in your UTOPIA and then simply starts to sort of create money? What then?
Can't happen. Someone would simply replicate it. (Maybe illegally, depending on how copyright is defined.) If it was something that would benefit society as a whole- a cure for one of the rare, remaining diseases, perhaps- it would probably be put into public domain by the powers that be. The 'greedy' creator might thereafter be shunned as a 'deviant'.

I'm not saying there isn't an ugly side to such a future (even if it was possible, which it probably isn't.) But we, as a whole, certainly couldn't make the transition into a Star Trek-style, cashless society overnight. There would be a lot of social and moral development required by the human race as a whole before such a society could be implimented.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
S2000magician
View Profile
Inner circle
Yorba Linda, CA
3465 Posts

Profile of S2000magician
With all this talk about the future as imagined by the multi-billion dollar Star Trek franchise, I'm sure that Karl Marx is torn between turning over in his grave and rubbing his hands.
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1197 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 11:08, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Love of money is one thing that creates greed.


One of the things that reflects greed, IMO. The creation of greed is probably coded and hidden away on some yet-unknown chromosome.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20614 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 11:29, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 11:20, Dannydoyle wrote:
What do you do in Utopia when someone manages to accidently create something people want and that person does not want to "give it away"? A person who does not want to participate in your UTOPIA and then simply starts to sort of create money? What then?
Can't happen. Someone would simply replicate it. (Maybe illegally, depending on how copyright is defined.) If it was something that would benefit society as a whole- a cure for one of the rare, remaining diseases, perhaps- it would probably be put into public domain by the powers that be. The 'greedy' creator might thereafter be shunned as a 'deviant'.

I'm not saying there isn't an ugly side to such a future (even if it was possible, which it probably isn't.) But we, as a whole, certainly couldn't make the transition into a Star Trek-style, cashless society overnight. There would be a lot of social and moral development required by the human race as a whole before such a society could be implimented.


Utopia through forced compliance and fantasy? Not a world I wish to see.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20614 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
How about a cure for baldness? All disease gone and still Piccard is bald. Man that sucks.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
EsnRedshirt
View Profile
Special user
Newark, CA
895 Posts

Profile of EsnRedshirt
Maybe his baldness is a fashion choice?

As for forced compliance... well, think about it. You already have access to everything you could ever desire. Then you discover the cure for cancer. You have absolutely nothing to gain from withholding knowledge that could save people's lives- you've already got access to everything. So why would you want to withhold it, unless you want people to die? I'd think that such a person, in a society where everything is given freely, might well be considered criminally insane- such actions would be unthinkable to the rest of society.

Like I said, such a society could not appear overnight- it would take years, maybe even generations, for humankind to evolve socially and emotionally to the point where it's ready for such a thing. Assuming that the technology which enables it is even possible in the first place. (Don't worry, it's almost certainly not, unless some very established laws of physics turn out to be wrong.)
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
Pakar Ilusi
View Profile
Inner circle
5715 Posts

Profile of Pakar Ilusi
Quote:
On 2011-12-15 16:09, Dannydoyle wrote:
How about a cure for baldness? All disease gone and still Piccard is bald. Man that sucks.


Yup, always wondered about that... Smile

Quote:
On 2011-12-15 17:14, EsnRedshirt wrote:

As for forced compliance... well, think about it. You already have access to everything you could ever desire. Then you discover the cure for cancer. You have absolutely nothing to gain from withholding knowledge that could save people's lives- you've already got access to everything. So why would you want to withhold it, unless you want people to die? I'd think that such a person, in a society where everything is given freely, might well be considered criminally insane- such actions would be unthinkable to the rest of society.




What about things that require consent (money or no money) you might not get it?

Like sex.

Sex is free too? (That's some future... Smile)

If not, that would be a great motivation to hold on to things that would give you authority and "leverage".

The whole Alpha Male thing gone too? I can't imagine so...

No positions of authority at all? There are many in Star Trek right?

So, sex and power would make some hold on to things.

Just human nature.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Dennis Michael
View Profile
Inner circle
Southern, NJ
6018 Posts

Profile of Dennis Michael
In the holodeck, a hugh replicator, you can have sex with anyone you choose.

Alpha Male is the new "greed". People with money want found out it is meaningless, so they strive for power. Warren Buffet is a prime example.

All the money in the world and you are forgotten when you die, you can't take it with you so power in the history books keeps your name alive a lot longer.

Quote:
Utopia through forced compliance and fantasy? Not a world I wish to see.


There never will be a "Utopia World". What I like about the above statement exists now, it's called "Excessive government control and financial fairness". The OW mantra.

This topic removes that perspective from the equation. Greed no longer exists, which brings us back to the original premise, What would you do in a world where money doesn't exist. You are no longer working for a paycheck, you medical is taken care of for "the most part", you will eventually die, so how would you "leave your mark" in this world?
Dennis Michael
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20614 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I am telling you that greed will exist. It is part of the human condition. All vice is. It exists in EVERY group where one person has a shiny stone that another does not.

Vice exists. It MUST exist for if it didn't some new vice would replace what you are lamenting as "greed". Utopian fantasy life just does not work.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dennis Michael
View Profile
Inner circle
Southern, NJ
6018 Posts

Profile of Dennis Michael
You are right Danny!
Dennis Michael
stoneunhinged
View Profile
Inner circle
3079 Posts

Profile of stoneunhinged
Quote:
On 2011-12-16 05:42, Dennis Michael wrote:

...so how would you "leave your mark" in this world?


I'd pee on everyone's furniture

As an agnostic regarding evolution, I find it difficult to believe that humans could ever evolve to a "higher" level in which greed has disappeared. And if I were in fact a believer in evolution, it seems to me that greed might well be a part of our inherited traits necessary for the survival of the species.

But right now I can't type anymore. Gotta take the dog out. He's gonna pee on trees, and I'm gonna pee on all the BMW's.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20614 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Wouldn't that be a great way to buy a truck?

"Yea that's my truck, I just went pee on it. 47 more pees and it is mine I own it outright.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
EsnRedshirt
View Profile
Special user
Newark, CA
895 Posts

Profile of EsnRedshirt
Yeah, but you'd have to out-pee everyone else who also wants to own it.

And I'd make a small fortune selling gallon-sized cups of coffee. (Cash only, no pee, thanks.)
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » A World without Money? (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.24 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL