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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » The award for worst design concept of 2011 goes to... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tom Cutts
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Frankly John, I was just pointing out your choice to take a statement out of context to twist it's meaning in an attempt to defend yourself, since that is what you did here. Where'd all that other baggage come from?

In equality fairness, I must applaud your irony as well, calling someone out about "respectful discussion" after blatantly taking their words out of context. Well played.
Magnus Eisengrim
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No Tom. That was the third time you commented on my character.

As for the "out of context" defense, it was the first of two sentences.

Quote:
Any catastrophe which befalls that structure would not surprise me. If the designers were ignorant of the image they created, what other things might they be ignorant of?


It does not appear that much context was lost. But here it is so that there is no misunderstanding.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Dannydoyle
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Where is all that famous understanding when it comes to Tom? Here is something they may be ignorant of...ready? Building.

Just one of the things that Tom could have been talking about. But since you disagree with him you immediately assume the worst.

You treat Tom with less understanding than those who propose this nonsense. It certainly says something.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-12-13 14:17, Salguod Nairb wrote:
Tom, you are the one generalizing that if anyone disagrees or see's things different from you are speaking volumes about themselves.

I have said that I can see both sides in previous posts. I will admit that people that are hypersensitive is one of my pet peeves.

The original discussion (IMO) is about the perception of the building, and if there was an intent to offend.


You posted a direct quotation about elements of offense, but you seem to only be taking the part that matches up to your position. Your quotation was that othe potential elements of offense include intent *or knowledge* and since then, you've written several posts that say there was no intent, so there's no offense. If they build it as designed, they do so with the knowledge of the resemblance; that matches your posting regarding offensiveness.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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Frankly, I don't think there was ever an intention to build this. I think it was a publicity stunt that was incredibly poorly conceived, and they had to scramble to justify themselves. I say this with no evidence whatsoever, just a hunch.

BTW it's interesting to take a look at the building on the left of the photo--it looks like it's leaning quite precipitously, as if--no, I'm probably just imagining it. Smile
Salguod Nairb
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Quote:
On 2011-12-12 20:31, Salguod Nairb wrote:
“There can be no offence without intention or knowledge. It must be proved on record that a particular offence has been committed either with the intention or with the knowledge,”


Here is my post from earlier. I specifically left in the knowledge portion just so it did not appear that I was tailoring it to my position. It has been my position that they did not intend from the beginning to completion to design the building as an offense (I also said that I may be wrong and it could of been done for publicity, but I don't think it was). I also don't think everyone see's the building in the same context. That has been the nature of my argument. Both sides have added other issues and have been venting back and forth, but the original issue was the building and the context.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
LobowolfXXX
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That's why I asked if you were referring to the design, or the building; regarding the building (if done unchanged), then lack of intent doesn't matter (per that quotation, anyway) - knowledge is a substitute for intent.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Salguod Nairb
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Yes if everyone thought the building was offensive, but not everyone does and that is where we are right now.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
LobowolfXXX
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Wow, it has to be unanimous?!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Tom Cutts
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Brian, are you saying everyone must agree on something for it to be offensive?
Salguod Nairb
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No, but those who don't agree should not be ostracised for voicing their opinion.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
mastermindreader
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Brian- You are misstating the the issue of knowledge. It doesn't matter if the designers don't believe it to be offensive. The "knowledge" they are charged with is that vast numbers of people are offended by it.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2011-12-13 19:33, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Wow, it has to be unanimous?!

No, it doesn't have to be unanimous; everyone just has to agree.

Sheesh!
Dannydoyle
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To be fair not everyone thinks serial killing is despicable, but it is. (I get a point for NOT using a Hitler reference.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Salguod Nairb
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So since my opinion is different I then must support serial killing?

I found this online. You can read the whole story HERE

A spokesperson for the developer stressed "there is nothing finalized about the design" and a spokesperson for MVRDV, the Dutch architecture firm responsible for the design, said the building plans had been published in Asia and Europe without controversy.

MVRDV apologized for the similarity on the company's Facebook page.

"It was not our intention to create an image resembling the attacks nor did we see the resemblance during the design process," the statement read.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
Tom Cutts
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Like I said, utter ignorance on the part of the design team. For skyscraper design professionals to overlook the obvious aesthetic similarities gives me pause to consider what other common sense they might be ignorant of.
Salguod Nairb
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So is Asia and Europe ignorant as well?

I'm trying to find a middle ground here but between the 'serial' and the 'ignorant' statements it is hard to have a dialog.

Kudos to you Bob for the friendly exchange.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-12-13 20:01, Salguod Nairb wrote:
So since my opinion is different I then must support serial killing?


Could you quote for me where I said that.

I will admit it is hard to have a dialogue, but the fact that you misrepresent what others say BLATANTLY may be part of the problem.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Salguod Nairb
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Quote:
To be fair not everyone thinks serial killing is despicable, but it is.


How I perceived the statement as to be... since not everyone thinks the building is an offense, but in your opinion it is. So indirectly I thought you were comparing the two ideas. I may be wrong but that is how I read it.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
Dannydoyle
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Yea that is how you read it. The ACTUAL point was that perceptions varry. But hey since I disagree with you then YOU automaticaly perceive it in the worst possible way. That is on you brother.

See online communication is more about how YOU read things than how I write them. YOU ascribe intent, YOU ascribe tone and all those things that are missing from a live conversation moved to online. as much as 88% of communication is non verbal. Throw in cultural differences and you have online communication working at less than 12%.

So next time ask before you assume. It should get you further.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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