Hi,

I'm aware that the Magic Café has very many sub-forums, or areas, or whatever the technical term is. But could it find room for one more? It's not for me, you understand, but for those who wish to fight about crediting.

When a new trick or prop is released, if there is a crediting issue then that would be wholly relevant to a review or workers thread. However, so many discussions are hijacked by crediting debates dating back over 50 years, which more often than not descend into internet brawls.

If a crediting point is raised, could there be an option to raise it directly in another area/forum/whatever? I suggest "Credit or Debit". That way, those with axes to grind can sharpen them together. Perhaps polishing their weapons communally might prove to be cathartic even. It might bring release.

Another member has repeatedly asked for general brawling to be moved to another place when it occurs. I second that user, but only out of voyeuristic self interest. Give me a bare knuckle cage fight and I'm happy.

Pip pip.

We have a forum called Right or Wrong which deals with such issues as well as general ethics.

It doesn't seem to get used for this purpose. Shame. And a disingenuous response to boot.

Wow, I'm not sure antagonizing the chief of staff will aid your cause. Interesting choice though.

LOL! I was thinking the same thing, but you put it quite a bit more eloquently than I would have

Well, I'm not the chief of staff but I'm still not sure what he's looking for. The forum I recommended is there for exactly what he described. If members don't use it for that purpose it's not our fault. As for being disingenuous, I believe these are the definitions of that:

1. withholding information: withholding or not taking account of known information
2. not genuinely sincere: giving a false impression of sincerity or simplicity

No information was withheld. He asked a question and got a direct answer.
Sincerity had nothing to do with the response. A question was asked and answered.

Some people are not satisfied unless the answer they receive is exactly what they think should be done.

I apologise, Dave Scribner, it was an angry and inappropriate response. The definition I was applying was the false impression of sincerity, for which I am sorry.

I didn't feel you quite addressed the point I was trying to make. There is so much contention concerning crediting on The Magic Café, that it often drives away good contributors from a thread which is about, for instance, the performance of a trick, or perhaps its relative strengths and weaknesses. Right or Wrong might not be the best place for the following reason:

There are many keen and good historians on this forum, so when a trick comes up for discussion as to its merits, the historians often dominate the thread until it becomes solely about provenance. I contend that if there were a dedicated history area, for those who have much to contribute, these ideas could be aired in a healthy way. To put such issues into Right or Wrong prejudges an ethical issue, as opposed to good natured academic debate.

I am no such historian of magic, but wince every time certain personalities clash. It's not just the VIP's I wince for, on many occasions it is the historians, whose passion I also respect.

It sounds like you have now changed your thought from the original post. At first you wanted a forum to discuss crediting. That would the right and wrong forum. Now you are looking for discussions on history. We have forums for that as well

Everything old is new again is for discussions involving the history and origin of tricks and props
Turn of the page is for discussion involving the history and origin of literature]
For the record is for discussions on the history and origin of sleights
Magicians of old is for discussions involving magicians of times gone by.

Someone has pointed me towards For the Record. Clearly there *is* an area; I will guide others towards it in future. If only it were used more...

Thanks, Dave Scribner, it seems we posted at the same time, I didn't see your message.

My initial post was intended as satire, but the 'joss' was to have a place to discuss crediting separate from other forums. I now see that you have this. I probably missed it, as it is very rarely alight whilst crediting issues are blazing in other forums.

Perhaps it is to do with moderation?