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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
If you can't get them to laugh and gasp and applaud, just use props/schemes that get them to yell a lot.
Really? Is that all you got? I remember a long time ago I left one of my first kids shows thinking that of myself... "Yelling? Is that all you got?" Remove all the yelling bits and I didn't have much else at the time. I felt cheap and talentless. Yelling is a beginner's way to get reactions, IMO. I'm not impressed. The worst of us can do that on a bad day. Be honest with yourself? What have you got left when you take away all the bits that urge yelling/screaming/shouting? Yelling? We can do better. Wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better!!
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Frank
I think that's funny, because I have found that mumbling under my breath gets great laughs from the adults in the room. Now that I have my Happie Amp people can hear my mumbling.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
I've kinda understood that, within a certain age range, the yelling and finger-pointing is the target, anticipated, and most rewarding reaction. That much of what a kid's magician might do will not be "caught" by the younger audiences, and they are difficult to amaze by "real" magic. And the journey, which we know is what it's really all about, is a lot more fun for them if they are empowered, which usually means yelling at the buffoon with the magic props.
Okay, I haven't read those exact words in any book. But I also haven't read much that tells a kid's magician how to convert the yelling into laughs and gasps of amazement. I have also somehow understood that the situations causing the yelling are amusing situations, and videos of yelling kids often show kids who aren't yelling because they're too busy laughing. So, Frank, when is your book/DVD/birthday course teaching this incredible secret going to hit the market? Or are you just going to come here and throw stones at us poor unimaginative schmucks? Ed |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-26 13:36, Frank Starsini wrote: No, but kids yelling and reacting is a good start....and I can't think of any reason why I would want to stop the kids reacting like this. Sure, it's great to provide moments of amazement, to engage them at subliminal levels, and to create original humour and interaction which is unique to one's performance style. I kinda think your latest post follows your thread about the "Applause Meter". Sure, kids love to yell and scream......and what better way to end a party than to have the kids show their appreciation of the event by screaming at the top of their voices? You will know from your testimonials, and monthly turnover if you're doing a good job. There is no "right way" of doing things. As long as every event you attend leaves everyone on a huge high, and feeling like they've just experienced one of the most amazing parties, you are providing what is expected. I would feel that a kids' party where the kids don't yell and scream, and show off the huge amount of fun they are having, is possibly not as much fun for them. If you've ever witnessed a performance which made you yell and scream, and you won't shut up until the performer(s) come back for an encore.....and I sincerely hope you have.....you will probably know what I mean. I think it's rather cynical for you to ask "is that all you've got?" Of course, the yelling and screaming is merely the product of the great and original show they have experienced. No one yells and screams (with delight), unless they really feel that way. "Yelling is a beginner's way to get reactions." Really? Well, if the kids are yelling, they are obviously engaged, and enjoying themselves. To say this is the "beginner's way to get reactions" sounds almost absurd. If I may say so Frank, your comment makes you sound somewhat jealous of the reactions that some entertainers elicit, once they have their audience eating out of their hands. So, do tell, what better reaction can you ask from any audience than their vociferous endorsement of what they have experienced? Potty |
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RJE2 Veteran user 383 Posts |
I think Potty has put it quite well talking about a balanced show that includes a portion of yelling.
However, I also believe that having kids yell, just because you ask them too (verbally or not), could become quite tedious (even annoying) to some if that was all that the performer offered in their show. |
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Al Kazam the Magic Man Inner circle Living in Perth Western Australia 1042 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-26 19:56, RJE2 wrote: I think the parents who are paying the bills, will agree with you as well. Not what you're after really! I learned a great deal about this angle of entertaining from John Breeds' brilliant book called "How to entertain children and triple your income". He has a great piece in there on the difference between getting kids to yell (just for yelling's sake), and how to entertain to get natural spontaneous reactions from the kids. For me personally, it was a massive help, and continues this day to inspire me to keep working on that part of my act. Happily now I get many good comments from parents about that particular aspect of my show. I urge you to try that route! JoJo
Magic guy in Perth Australia
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-26 13:36, Frank Starsini wrote: Is that a real quote that came up in a thread or conversation?
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Kids yelling is a good thing, magician yelling is not so good.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-26 14:49, Potty the Pirate wrote:Really? Well, if the kids are yelling, they are obviously engaged, and enjoying themselves. To say this is the "beginner's way to get reactions" sounds almost absurd. No need to be jealous of what any crap magician on their first day can do, Potty. What I'm saying is that getting kids to yell and scream is easy. Very easy. Very very very very easy. I'm not saying "don't do it", but make sure it's not your only strong reaction. I think we can all agree that anyone can get kids to yell and scream; just buy "off the meter" or "the clap-o-meter", toss in some "look-don't see", a silly wand or two and you're good to go. Anyone can get that reaction no matter how poor they are. I'm asking that we do better and shoot for gasps, amazement, shrieks, laughter til their sides hurt and stunned silence.... from the kids and the non-kids in attendance. I am saying we need to get past yelling as a goal and the mark of success in our shows. By itself, it's not success. It's the mark of a hack or a beginner IF that is the only strong reaction they get. (Notice I say .. IF it's the ONLY) I do have a small bit of the yelling thing going on, just to change things up a bit, but I hardly cite that as anything I'm proud of eliciting from the kids. If yelling is all you're really getting from the kids you perform for, don't be defensive.. be better!!! Al, yes, yelling can be a good thing.. unless it's all you got! Hence my original post.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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The Mighty Fool Inner circle I feel like a big-top tent having 2140 Posts |
Ah...the mystery of why he hates the 'Off-The-Meter' explained!
I agree that no really good kids-show should be nothing BUT yelling, however, yelling (aka prticipating and getting INTO the show) isn't a bad thing, as it usually evolves into laughter if done right. Laughter is the main thing to aim for, and most effects which often result in yelling (die-box, RRR, spotty-wand) are yells mixed with laughs. OTM is desinged for just pure NOISE, but there are big laughs at the very end. Between you wanting to limit the yelling, and TruthTeller / DavidDrowyn wanting to end the laughing.....it would be a somber kid's magic show indeed!
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Both Frank and I don't like "off the meter". I know how to make kids laugh, and I like my applause to happen organically. On the other hand I always make kids scream when I do my pizza box, or acrobatic silks, but I never raise my voice during my show.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Devious Inner circle 2120 Posts |
Al, you can add me to your list of not liking the "Clap O' Meter" but I don't
perform kids shows anymore. I still look for novel ideas to use in my busking sets though. Any new commercials lately Brother Al? |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I never said I hate "off-the-meter". I don't have it, I don't want it, I don't need it. But I don't hate it. I don't even dislike it.
It's just not something that I would want in my show for several reasons. It's a great idea if you have a great reason to use it. I do not, nor am I looking for a reason to use it. I will say again that if you NEED a prop like this to get strong reactions from the kids, you need to work harder at becoming a better entertainer and work harder at making your act better. If you remember my original post... this was a criticism of my own act way back when I first started performing for kids.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-26 13:36, Frank Starsini wrote: Quote:
On 2011-12-26 14:17, Ed_Millis wrote: Frank; Your telling us what you did long ago that made you feel cheap and talentless; you post what you IYHO feel other performers are doing now that is cheap and talentless by your standard. Frank, you neglected to tell us what you do in your routine to be superior and talented, how you have made your shows great; then we can understand and discuss the subject from both sides |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I do wonder if others are trying to get by with just yelling but I don't know for sure. I think that's for everyone to decide for themselves. I think it's a good idea for us to be honest with ourselves and analyze our show for ways to improve. That's all. I didn't say anyone was doing this and should stop. I said, "be honest with yourself".
Howie, I didn't neglect to tell you anything. I think "strong reactions that are not in the form of pure yelling for yelling's sake" basically sums it up, nicely.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts |
I would like to know how you obtain "strong reactions” in your show?
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TonyPorter Regular user 180 Posts |
I believe a major culprit is the 'look don't see' scenario. I think this is a wonderful technique but from what I've seen of other children's magicians it constitutes their ENTIRE show, just one 'look don't see' after another. The show becomes a monotonous series of 'the-buffoon-STILL-doesn't-see' routines, then the performer wonders why it's difficult to regain control when he/she needs to.
A show really should consist of variety. That doesn't mean a 'look don't see' rope routine followed by a 'look don't see' coloring book routine. It means texture - highs and lows. The REALLY good children's entertainers are aware of this and structure their shows accordingly. |
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
One way to get a strong reaction is to really surprise and amaze them with Magic. It is easier to do that if they are not climbing the walls.
I have laughs in my show and I do start my kids shows with a Clapping Gag and a tiny tutorial on applause in a live show. Kids are not used to the expectation of applause so why not explain it in a fun way? That said I also have what I consider good Magic that I feel confident would entertain anyone, not just kids. I feel a bit in the minority in this opinion but maybe that is just because we hear a lot from the, "get 'em screaming" perspective. I think those voices may only be portraying one side of their performing persona more clearly than other facets of their show. But if screaming is the only response a performer can get from the audience, it is not enough. Children's brains are growing faster than most adults and we should respect growing intellect. -Mary Mowder |
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randyburtis Inner circle 1256 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-12-27 04:30, Mary Mowder wrote: well said! I agree,kids want to ooh and ahhh, clap, cheer, have their jaws drop in amazement and have fun, why limit what you do to JUST getting them to yell. |
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
I have to agree with Frank. When I consider the childrens entertainment that comands the biggest bucks, such as Disney On Ice and Sesame Street Live, they aim to entertain the audience with an amazing, highly produced show. While it may be a matter of opinion as to these shows being the best type of entertainment for the young audience, it seems hard to argue that audiences are willing to pay more for it. I believe that as magicians, Frank is suggesting we try to aim towards developing our talents and showmanship in order to offer a product that has greater appeal to discerning customers. I think this is a great topic to discuss and hear various opinions, as audience reaction is a critical part of why we perform.
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