|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] | ||||||||||
edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
Bob1Dog, Jane Fonda is still apologizing for that.
Balducci, I didn't know that. I thought that he just ran off to avoid going to prison. Interesting.
Magic is a vanishing art.
|
|||||||||
Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-05 16:12, edh wrote: All her phoney apologies can't change what she did.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
|||||||||
Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-05 16:10, Bob1Dog wrote: Darn straight! Daggone Ronald Reagan...!
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
|||||||||
Woland Special user 680 Posts |
The remark about wishing Mr. Polanski had been present in the house formerly rented by Terry Melcher might be interpreted differently; Polanski's friend and fellow Polish expatriate Jerzy Kosinski once said, if memory serves, that he wished he had been present, feeling that things would have gone differently. Admittedly, Wojciech Frykowski's presence did not help.
|
|||||||||
balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-05 14:29, stoneunhinged wrote: I was hesitant to post any link because it is such a sensitive subject, and I'm sure no matter what I post someone (on one side or the other) will accuse me of some huge bias. But since you were not the only one saying that some of what I mentioned was new to you, here are 2 links ... one somewhat mocking and anti-Polanski and one possibly somewhat sympathetic ... both mention Polanski's time in Chino and the second goes into some detail about the Judge involved: http://www.sbsun.com/ci_13464136 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people......106.html I think there are enough leads in the two for you to find more info on your own. Two more links related to the documentary mentioned in the second article are these: http://www.slashfilm.com/former-la-prose......defense/ http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20......ibi.html (I think the last is a "liberal" site but the article is not sympathetic to Polanski ... anyway you can fact check what it says against easy to find articles on the same topic elsewhere.)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
|
|||||||||
Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-05 18:54, Steve_Mollett wrote: I wish we had Reagan back to straighten out the mess we're in now...
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
|||||||||
Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-04 13:33, stoneunhinged wrote: Yes, there are others who feel as you do about artists and their expressions. I did not watch "Powder," will no longer listen to Michael Jackson music, and even have second thoughts about buying admission to movies starring actors whom I consider to be politically incorrect. To put it succinctly, it's irrelevant to me how good an artist John Wayne Gacy might have been, I'm not buying one of his clown paintings. Kind regards, Leland |
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
While I understand your general sentiment, isn't it a bit outrageous to compare actors who you consider to be "politically incorrect" with a serial killer like Gacy?
Good thoughts, Bob |
|||||||||
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-05 12:09, acesover wrote: I can easily see how it could. Something as horrible as happened to his wife and unborn child? Definitely could unbalance someone's mind. Quote:
Is this what you have to do to make your case? Switch out 'wife and baby murdered' with 'didn't get his bicycle'??? Quote:
And lots of people have. Quote:
With that mentality there would be no guilty people in the world it would all be because something happened to them that changed their lives and the devil made them do it. Who said there would be no guilty people? They still must pay for the consequences of their actions - deservedly so. That does *not* mean that their actions do not have deep/painful psychological roots/causes. Quote:
It is simple. How about this: He is a child rapist and left the country to avoid prosecution. All true. No one denied that. What is also being discussed is if it is possible that his past trauma could have resulted in what he did? I think it is within the realm of possibility.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
|
|||||||||
critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
In all fairness, he said she looked 14.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
|||||||||
Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-09 10:51, mastermindreader wrote: Now, now, you've noticed the waves but overlooked the ocean. I described a spectrum, but without ascribing parity to its gradients. The actors whom I consider to be politically incorrect are similar to Gacy in only one way (which was the point of my summation): Neither receive my support, regardless of their artistic merit. |
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
No. I noticed the "ocean." I said I agreed with your general sentiment. I just don't put actors whose politics I don't like in the same sentence as serial killers. Nor are they even remotely in the same gradient.
|
|||||||||
acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-09 11:49, Chessmann wrote: ---------------------------------------------- I can easily see how it could. Something as horrible as happened to his wife and unborn child? Definitely could unbalance someone's mind. So using this in his defense you feel that it caused him to rape a 12 year old? I guess you see some correlation there. I don't. Yet you do not think a young person could not be scarred by not geting a bicycle when all his friends got one and he did not. Because that is what you implied by your post of my substution which is just as ricidulous as your defense for him. -------------------------------------------- Who said there would be no guilty people? They still must pay for the consequences of their actions - deservedly so. That does *not* mean that their actions do not have deep/painful psychological roots/causes. When people have the description you describe in your post they are not "guilty". they are sick if it is true. "IF" is the key word here. If that is the case they do not pay for their actions...they are treated. -------------------------------------------- All true. No one denied that. What is also being discussed is if it is possible that his past trauma could have resulted in what he did? I think it is within the realm of possibility. Which bring us back to square one as I said before. No guilty people only people who could have past trauma that caused them to do bad things. So what in effet you are saying that everyone can have this trauma and do bad things and use this trauma as a defense for doing bad things. So if he can use this as a defense so can others. As I said no guilty people just tramatized ones. Yea that works...for the ones who commit atrocities such asa raping a 12 year old child. Didn't some people try and claim that Hilter was what he was because he was not acccepted as a tallented artist? HITLER POINTS
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
|
|||||||||
balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Not that this excuses his actions, but the girl was not 12. She was at least 13. I think she was nearly 14, but I could be off on that.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
|
|||||||||
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Aces,
I never said I saw a distinct correlation. I simply said that I DO see how something like he experienced could lead to major problems. Nor am I defending Polanski, which you did not grasp. There is a big difference between looking for emotional reasons behind a crime and absolving someone of guilt. You are the one who substiuted murder for not getting a bike, not I. You seem to feel that searching for psychological reasons behind a crime equates always to a defense. It does not. You wrote: "When people have the description you describe in your post they are not "guilty". they are sick if it is true. "IF" is the key word here. If that is the case they do not pay for their actions...they are treated." People are found not guilty if they are insane. They are not found to be without guilt because they had some past psychological trauma. Polanski is not insane. Therefore, he is considered guilty. The simple fact remains that many, many people act out for many reasons, psychological trauma included. You say, "No guilty people...'' I certainly never said that. Of course they are guilty. You are taking this far beyond my argument. My only point was that it is a possibility that Polanski was imbalanced due to the psychological trauma of his wife and child being murdered, and this could have played a part in his later crimes. Are you denying this is even a possibility? For some reason, you seem to want to rule out the possibility that any emotional issues that can lead to a crime. At least, that is how I read you. Saying that a beaten child who grows up to beat their own child does not absolve his/her guilt, but no one denys the underlying emotional causes. You say that means "no guilty people". No, it certainly does not mean that. I say they must still be held accountable for their actions, but also that there are reasons for their actions. Those reasons do not absolve anyone of guilt unless they were insane. Some people may have claimed Hitler did what he did because he wasn't accepted as an artist, but that excuse didn't work, did it? You don't see anyone saying he shouldn't have been held accountable and punished for his actions, do you? Or, do you think that Hitler was an emotionally well-balanced individual who had no emotional issues which played a role in his crimes?
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
|
|||||||||
Woland Special user 680 Posts |
There is a difference between an explanation that helps to understand why a criminal might have been motivated to commit a crime, and an explanation that seeks to exculpate a criminal because of an understanding of his motivation.
That is to say, it is interesting to consider how many of Roman Polanski's experiences in childhood and adult life might have formed his character in a particular way. But to understand that in no way makes him innocent. Living together in an orderly community requires that we be responsible for our actions, and that we constrain our actions in certain areas of conduct. For example, no community will long survive if it embraces adultery, murder, envy, and theft. Undoubtedly on at least some level Roman Polanski knew that it was wrong -and illegal- to provide alcohol and drugs to a young teenage girl in order to have sex with her. Knowing his life history may help us to understand why he did not control his fantasies and desires, but that does not wash away his culpability. W. |
|||||||||
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Very well put, and in half the space I needed to use!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
|
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Exactly right. Nor did Polanksi use an insanity defense. He pleaded guilty.
|
|||||||||
acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-10 00:28, Chessmann wrote: I very much appreciate your sensible response to my post. You make valid points. I may have responded to some of your posts with a knee jerk response and for that I am sorry. Which actualy gives credence to your point that some things are done because of an incident. If thought through logicaly my response may have been quite different. Yet it was triggered beause of something I read and responded too. So es it definitely struck and emotional chord in me to which I responded. While this is far from what happened in the Polanski case I do see the correlation. I cannot imagine what my emotional state would be had that ever happened to my wife and unborn child. I just do not think it would lead to what he did. I also realize after rereading your post that you did not say that. When dealing with emotions I guess things build and build and some times irrational things happen which are not from one incident but a culmanation of them that finally pushes one over the edge. We often hear the expression he flipped out or he went postal , or he went ballastic. Again thanks for a rational response and keeping it to a discussion rather than a shouting match (can you even have a shouting match on the internet? ).
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
|
|||||||||
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-10 11:00, acesover wrote: And I, yours. Quote:
You make valid points. I may have responded to some of your posts with a knee jerk response and for that I am sorry. Which actualy gives credence to your point that some things are done because of an incident. If thought through logicaly my response may have been quite different. Yet it was triggered beause of something I read and responded too. So es it definitely struck and emotional chord in me to which I responded. While this is far from what happened in the Polanski case I do see the correlation. Hey, in the vast, vast majority of cases, I have no doubt you are absolutely right. I had a very horrible 7-year period with my mother as she battled, first, mental issues that were brought on by wrong medications (wasn't THAT wonderful!), and then followed by a very nasty case of Alzheimer's, where every time I would come visit her, I could hear her as I was riding up the elevator, calling out, "Oh, god, oh, god....!" Then when she would see me, she would burst into tears and plead with me to rescue her from fire, rape, etc... So, I have my own baggage that directs some of my responses Quote:
When dealing with emotions I guess things build and build and some times irrational things happen which are not from one incident but a culmanation of them that finally pushes one over the edge. We often hear the expression he flipped out or he went postal , or he went ballastic. As long as you don't use ALL CAPS, I guess it's possible.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Roman Polanski (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.09 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |