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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Have you guys ever bought a magic prop (or a DVD or book telling you how to do a certain effect) and you just can't figure out how to make it entertaining? Let's say there is nothing wrong with the prop - it works fine, and you know that other people are probably having success with it. Maybe you have performed it without getting good results, or you havent tried it yet because you can't figure out a good routine yet. I'm creative, but sometimes I just have a creative block and can't think of a good way to do it.
For example, I have a prop, I forgot the name, but it has 3 clear plastic cups mounted to a board. The idea on the instructions is that you are trying to make a silk jump from one glass to another, so you turn your back to the audience and just turn the whole thing around so it seems like the silk jumped to the other side, but the audience is supposed to catch you and yell at you that you just turned it around. You do that maybe 1 more time then use the gimmick to actually make it jump to the middle in front of them. Maybe this isn't a great concept/prop idea, but it seems like I should be able to make it get good reactions, and I've had no luck so far. I've given up on it unless I can figure out a better presentation. I don't care about performing tricks like instructions suggest, but I like to at first try stuff like instructions say till I get used to it and see how it plays, then I'll change the routine to fit me and so I feel like I'm being more original. In this case I tried it like the instructions say and it's still not playing well, and I can't think of anything else. Does that stuff happen to you guys, and does it drive you crazy? Any ideas on this prop?
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
Dan,
I'm not being silly here, why did you buy it? Did you see someone else do it in an entertaining manner or get it cheap at an auction? If you laughed when you first saw it it could be that you aren't playing it right (although there is a lot of Magic I enjoy that I can't do). But if you've never seen the effect work and don't know if you like it, It could be that it just isn't you. I never proceed with learning an effect I don't enjoy (sometimes you are just reading the effect so you may have to imagine and guess). "Try, try again" then dump it. If it isn't working it is taking the place of something better. I've tried and failed at quite a few effects, gags and jokes. Yes, it is frustrating. As my friend Art Gross used to say "Different courses for different horses." -Mary Mowder |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Hi Mary,
First, in your photo you look just like my sister - it's kinda freaking me out! I didn't see it performed, I wasn't planning on getting it, but it was cheap and the description made it sound like something that would work for me. Usually I check things out more carefully, watch video demos etc. I was just wanting to know if other people had the same issues so I feel better about not figuring out a good bit/writers block. Sometimes I come up with my best gags/methods as I perform them live, but not in this case.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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magicmaninsd Regular user San Diego, CA 199 Posts |
Could the problem be your character? I know for myself, certain routines and bits of business do not mesh well with my character. If you have a character of bumbley and fumbley like Silly Billy (a big goofy kid) that type of effect you bought would play a lot stronger with him than you or I.
As with any other kind of magic (cards, coins, etc.) I will buy a book and pick and choose one or two effects that mesh well with my style and use those. |
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
This is a picture of your sister. I'm loath to put up a photo that really looks like me (as those who know me will attest.)
If you are working in a public venue, it can help to bring in a Magician friend for an outside perspective. -Mary Mowder |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
My ex-wife could get great milage out of Run Rabbit Run. I never tried it, but I know I would bomb with it. Some tricks suit us, some don't. Find a magician you don't like and pass the trick along!
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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TheGreatNancini Veteran user Ohio 373 Posts |
Tony-
It is interesting you mentioned Run Rabbit Run, as my son, Matthew cannot do Hippity Hop Rabbits to save his life! He always gives the wrong rabbit the wrong name and has it under the wrong tube! I have seen many magicians perform Hippity Hops very successfully and be extremely entertaining, but it just doesn't work for either of us! Loved your idea about passing the trick along! Tricks like that make wonderful white elephant gifts at magic club Christmas parties, although we never have time to attend them anymore. Actually, it is very easy to see a great prop and get caught up in the hype and sales pitch of it, and then find out it is not for you after you purchase it. This is especially true, when you are new to magic and still finding your way and the types of things that work for you. It can happen for us seasoned workers as well though no matter how careful we try to be when it comes to making a purchase. I am sure this is why there is never a shortage of posts in the Tricks and Effects for sale section of the Café! ~Nanci |
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MichaelCGM Inner circle Oklahoma City 2286 Posts |
Quote: OMG! Mary looks just like my sister, too!!! It's uncanny.
On 2012-02-04 15:58, danfreed wrote: First, in your photo you look just like my sister - it's kinda freaking me out! I don't know the effect you're talking about, Dan. But it sounds like it would play much like Acrobatic Silks. I've had several different responses with AcroSilks, depending on the audience mix. I found that, if you play it in a pseudo-dramatic style - with a little by-play - it works a little better. Try shooshing the ones who say they know what you did, then turning to the opposite side of the audience, as though you think you're fooling them. Should work well with your similar routine. As to your original question, I run into the same dilemma occasionally. I remember when I bought my first Dream Bag (jumbo). I worked on routining that thing for weeks and couldn't come up with anything that felt right to me. My BIG question was, "Why do I have this silly bag," except to produce something. That didn't fit my style. I need a reason for everything I do in a show. So, I sold it - brand new - for 1/3 of what I paid. About a month later, I had an epiphany. [No, that's not a small rabbit.] What if the Dream Bag was the "Magic Bag" for the whole show. So, I bought a small version. I keep it on my side-stand, filled with props that I'll be using in the show. At the end of the show, I reach into the bag for the "grand finale," only to find the bag empty. Now what? Then make a few passes over the empty bag and… you get the picture. It's frustrating when a prop or effect just doesn't fit one's show. But, stick it in a drawer and wait awhile. Often, the solution will come to you when you least expect it. Hope this helps. ASIDE: Mary, I wanted to send my sister a birthday card with her very own photo on it, but don't want to ask her for one - so she won't suspect anything. Can I cut and paste yours? |
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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
I was surprised to find myself attracted to the premise of this prop too. For my act a monkey bar routine with a visual kicker isn't an obvious goer. So, as I couldn't be bothered to make one up myself, couldn't at the time find a supplier of this effect anywhere and anyway didn't have space for it in my props box I decided to try out other versions of the same premise first and bought this and this and this .
My hope was that I would be able to make the first part of the routine look kind of 'cute' in an, it's-stupid-but-it's-funny, kind of way and then wow the crowd with the reasonably magical and comedically punchy kicker finish. However I found I just couldn't make the first part of any of these variations on a theme cute enough and the end kickers while actually surprisingly reasonably magically satisfying (the silk/rope trick was particularly amenable to creating a real visually surprising moment) just didn't get my creative juices flowing enough to be able to add any of me into the proceedings. I think one of the reasons for this is the props themselves... they all looked like they were designed solely for the purpose of allowing a magician to do a specific trick with them. I guess this is to do with them being designed for the children's market(?) but regardless it isn't a fit with me and my show. Also I simply wasn't able to create a presentation, script, or framework that was 'enough' of anything. Not engaging enough, not magical enough (although as I say the 'jumping silk on ropes' kind of qualifies in this department), not relevant enough, and most problematic, not funny enough. I have the same problem with the torn and restored newspaper. I love the effect and would really like to have it in my show. Now this really is a magically strong effect and it doesn't suffer from looking like it exists solely for the purpose of doing a trick with. However try as I might, and believe me I have tried... I cannot write a routine/script/presentation for it that I can make funny enough to warrant being included in my show. I have scripted plenty of material for this effect but none of it that measures up to what I feel it needs to. So in answer to your question; "Does this happen to you and does it drive you crazy?"... yes. Although crazy might be putting it too strongly. More... slightly frustrated and annoyed at having a problem to solve and not being yet able to crack it. But I've not given up and I enjoy frequently revisiting these elusive effects with a newly sharpened pencil, open notebook but unfortunately usually blank mind.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
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billappleton Inner circle Los Gatos, California 1154 Posts |
For me there is no relationship between (1) what I paid and (2) how good I thought it was going to be and (3) how well it actually works for me
gag wands -- they were not expensive, I wasn't sure they would work, they are really great multum in parvo -- not expensive, I wasn't expecting much, people are fascinated with this tip over trunk -- this was expensive, I was worried about this, but this is insanely great bigger & biggest wands -- this was expensive, I thought it would be great, I struggle with this 10 foot pole production -- this was cheap, I thought it was worth a try, but this works great multiplying bottles -- this was expensive, I thought it was great, I am not happy with the finale die box -- medium price, I was suspicious this would work, this routine is very good I have NO ADVICE as to how to fix this problem! But Mary, I'd be proud to have a sister like you... |
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MichaelDouglas Special user Portland, Oregon 766 Posts |
Dan, I had considered buying the trick you describe. I never did, but I do have the same trouble with acrosilks. It's just not strong enough for me....yet.
As MichaelCGM wisely stated, giving tricks time to incubate in our subconscious can result in suprisingly strong effects at times. That's how some of my favorite routines came into existance. I've never disposed of any tricks....to the dismay of my Mrs. Sometimes I'll run across a video or something in a book or even a post here on the Café that will breathe life into a prop that's been dormant for a long time. |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Michael, Mary looks like your sister too?! Oh man, I think we need to investigate, or our dads have some splainin' to do.
It's good to know I'm not the only one who can't crack the Davinci Code on a prop. It's not just a matter of the trick fitting the personality - I think the trick I was talking about seems right in theory for me: (it's Kangeroo Hopping Silks http://www.themagiccompany.com/cat_main.html go about a fourth down. Michael Baker made it, and he's a very good guy to deal with). It is very similar in premise to the Middle Diddle Silk that Sealegs linked to. Interesting that Sealegs hasn't cracked the code on his yet either.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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MichaelCGM Inner circle Oklahoma City 2286 Posts |
It's a nice looking prop, Dan. Having read the promo, I paused at the, "or covering it for just a second," comment. So, just for grins, here's a thought: How about a presentation similar to the Hippity Hop Rabbits, using a magical looking silk foulard and the spin-around gag incorporated with the rabbits - instead of behind one's back? You might try setting the foulard on the corner of your table between gags - requireing you to reach for it each time. Then, after hearing the lad at the back of the audience say to "Make it jump to the middle," you could suggest that it might be too hard, but you're willing to try. Now, as your attention is away from the glasses - reaching for the foulard, perhaps - the silk jumps, on its own, to your utter amazement. Rather trite, perhaps, but with the right bits of business, it might fly (pun intended).
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
Mike, feel free to use my photo just this once.
-Mary |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
There's no such thing as a bad trick. Only bad performers. At least that's what someone once told me. This person however never had a gig reviewing magic tricks. Trust me, there are lots of borderline to bad effects out there. So don't beat yourself up if you can't get a certain effect to work for you. It could just be a bad trick.
However the one that you're describing doesn't sound all that bad an I can see why you were drawn to it. There could be any number of reasons it's not working for you. Bad premise, doesn't fit your perfotming character, you haven't found your "voice" in it yet. Try it out a few more times. Move it's placement in your show. Try to include it into a longer routine. If these don't work then take it out and let it stew in the back of your mind. Eventually you'll come up with a working presentation or you can sellit off at the next swap meet. No reason to beat yourself up over it. Not all effects are for all people. There are things I've been working on fot years that I still haven't come up with a viable routine for.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Payne, thanks for the pep talk. I watched your coin in bottle video on your website. Great performance and routine. Really funny. I would like to buy your coin in bottle please. I'll PayPal $500 forthwith.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts |
I own a number of tricks I purchased when I first started out that at first did not work for me; I still own them.
As time goes on and I see more tricks and with the experience I have gained, I can now work some of the tricks into my routine alone; or with another trick that can lead into it. Sometimes it takes time to figure it out |
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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
I hadn't thought about this effect for a while until reading this thread. But as I've now turned my mind to it afresh I think I might have, in theory at least, a way to make it work.
To find a solution the problem needs to first be identified. (Of course we could just forget it and do another effect but where's the fun in that?) It seems pretty obvious that the punchline/climax of any effect needs to be able to round off, in an all round satisfying way, the routine that precedes it and I think that this is where this 'Jumping Silk' effect comes a cropper. The set up that is needed in this effect to give reason and rationale to the climax is too much for the 'magic moment', which is cute but not a magical jaw dropper, to carry. I think this is why the overall impact is one of a damp squib. (remember I'm doing this in a adults show not a kids show) This problem is going to persist regardless of the presentational framing. (except, possibly, unless one presents it in a way that involves over elaborately explaining to the audience that it is a trick that has a finish that doesn't live up to the build up.) So problem identified (?) ... now what to do...? Here's my thoughts for solving this problem... get rid of the preceding routine and just do the climax of the effect essentially presenting it as a very quick, cute, 5 second throw away bit. Alternatively it could be presented as a running gag where you repeatedly make brief half hearted attempts to get the hanky to jump but nothing happens. This effectively spreads the routine over the entire act and disconnects the build up from the climax. Now to go and make it up, try it out.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
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RealityOne Loyal user 227 Posts |
I'm coming down on the side that the effect has significant flaws. The effect really is a "look what I can do" type of effect. The first question that has to be answered is why anyone would think a silk jumping from glass to glass is that impressive. With that being said, maybe one presentation is to build off of how really unimpressive this effect is.
Make up an instruction manual or book. Have on spectator come up to help you on stage. You reads the book and the other helps you. The text of the book has an "Amazing Vanishing Bandana" feel to it and the presentation has a Wayne Dobson feel to it (See the effects in WD40 called The Kid's a Magician and Echo). Have the instructions read [notes to performer in brackets]: Say to the audience, "I am about to perform one of the most amazing magical effects they have ever seen. [make the volunteer say "I am about to perform....] Tell the audience, "I have three perfectly normal glasses and one perfectly normal silk just like the one's your dad has a home." Then say, "I am going make the silk magically jump from the left glass to the right glass." [insert some byplay by pointing to the wrong glass because you are facing the child and your right is their left.] Do the magic move by passing the glasses behind your back and thus making it appear that the silk has jumped from one side to the other.[The volunteer does this]. Make sure that you cover the glasses with the larger silk before you do this so as not to reveal the secret. [good laugh moment]. Then tell the audience, "I'm going to make the silk magically jump back from the right glass to the left glass." Do the magic move by passing the glasses behind your back and thus making it appear that the silk has jumped from one side to the other. [see if they will do it a second time without covering it - if they remember it you can say "but the instructions don't say to cover it this time." Regardless of what they do, continue...] Make sure that you cover the glasses with the larger silk before doing this so as not to reveal the secret. [even more funny] Then ask the audience, "Which glass do you want the silk to jump to this time?" [now the audience should yell out "the middle." but if they don't the next line will make them do it...] After seeing the silk jump to the right to the left and back to the right [pause to think about that], the audience is sure to ask you to have it jump to the left glass. There is no chance that that audience will ask you to have it move to the middle glass. To build the anticipation, ask the audience again "Which glass do you want the silk to jump to this time?" Tell the audience, "If that is what you want, I'll do it." This time have an assistant help you. Make sure your assistant has read these instructions. It is best to pick the person closest to you. Pick somebody that has some knowledge of magic. If anyone in the audience has a magic wand, pick them. [by this time they will have gotten the hint and picked you - you can adjust those lines to make surefire - pick the guy with the blue shirt, black vest and hat who's sister looks like Mary Mowder]. Have your assistant cover the glasses with the big silk. Do the magic move by passing the glasses behind your back. Borrow your assistant's magic wand. Waive the wand over the glasses and say "Presto Chango." Ask the audience, "Wouldn't this be the one of the most amazing magical effects you have ever seen if the silk jumped to the glass that the audience picked?" Then tell them that, "I'd be amazed if it actually worked too." The next step has to happen in the proper sequence to get the maximum amount of applause from the audience. Count backwards from three, then have your assistant remove the big silk right as you say "TaDa." The audience will clap and you will take a bow. Start counting now... The magic at the end becomes stronger because the audience picked the middle, because the instructions weren't designed to have it appear in the middle and because the child appears to have done real magic. Everyone wants the silk to be in the middle because they want the child to succeed. And it has a built in applause cue for the volunteer.
~David
Any perception of reality is a selection of reality which results in a distortion of reality. |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Thanks everyone. I like all your ideas and thinking. One guy PM'd with a trained flea concept I could use. So I may try a mix of ideas and see what sticks. This also makes me fee better to know I'm not the only one who can't always figure out a method. It's like when I do artwork. Sometimes I know something is wrong with my design but I may have trouble figuring it out (even though I know all the design theory stuff very well), but when I see another artists work I can usually quickly see what could be improved.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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