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FrenchDrop Inner circle I can name that tune in 1647 Posts 
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On 2012-02-24 23:11, MaxfieldsMagic wrote: Personally, I don't need specific details. The one thing I'll be very interested in hearing from subscribers around July or August is how many of them have gotten material from Real Secrets that they perform regularly...and how much material. If a lot of people are getting a significant amount of material they find workable and applicable to their styles of magic, that'll say a lot more to me about the value of Real Secrets than the names of those behind it -- or even the names of the more famous contributors. (Having said that, I find it funny how many people are now making this an issue of personal wealth. "Oh, well, if you can't afford $144, then it's not for you." Oh, brutha!  Makes me think of the snooty jewelry store clerk in a thousand old sitcoms: "If you hahve to ahsk, my dear, you cahn't afford it!"  )
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts
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There's a self righteous element sneaking into this thread now.
Basically everyone is entitled to their opinion so there's no need for snipes at other folks for theirs, unless of course you are insecure in your own beliefs. For me its still the economics that don't add up. I can't believe I am going to get 12 never seen before cutting edge effects for $140-- as others have said why would you not release them individually for $20 a pop. So my fear is that these will be the type of effects better put in a book, but in this case a pretty expensive book. And then, if I've have got $140 to spare on something I know nothing about wouldn't I be better spending it on something I've wanted for a while but never splashed out on because I'd thought it a tad too expensive -- better that for me than this gamble. |
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EricDraven Inner circle 1257 Posts
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Well it isn't the biggest amount of money for a year full of effects (so I do not expect that much either), but it sure sounds like a lot fun!
The worried ones do seem to raise some valid points, but imho overdo it. Weber and Maven are more than enough backup for me. :) Will the effects be workers for me? I don't know it and frankly I don't worry about it, I have enough in my arsenal. For me it's about the excitement every month and the exclusivity. I only really hope that this project will live up to its promise of exclusivity! Too often projects already failed to deliver there in the past... I will see...so platinum for me..."i'm in" 
Believe me...nothing is trivial...
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pennjarr Regular user 110 Posts
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Lots of people seem to have signed up already (with at least 5 weeks still to go) this must be encouraging for 'real secrets', There doesn't appear to be a limit to how many people can sign up, but at the same time in the original ad it stated
"well over two years content already completed, MANUFACTURED and ready to share with our community" (EMPHASIS ADDED) so they have produced something(s), the interesting question which of course everyone would like to know is what? The Marketing sugests that an envelope will arrive monthly, and I speculating it will be an envelope rather than anything larger, because the difference in shipping between US, and the rest of the world is $16. Which will contain at least one effect from one of the names that have been mentioned already, but the effects is rarely going to be cards or coins. If you sign up for platinum there will be bonuses (plural) including an unpublished effect from Michael Weber which includes gimmicks. But if you miss a month, then there is no way you can get it back, so for example if the first edition contains something absolutely incredible, that sends the world of magic into a spin, if you miss it, it has gone forever. Real secrets have remained very tight lipped about all of this, I hear lots of rumours from different sites of who may or may not be behind all of this, but that is all they are. It could be David Berglas and Lance Burton for all I know, becasue real secrets aren't saying. And yes I have wasted a lot more that $160 on effects that are now collecting dust, $160 isn't a huge amount of money, and a three month subscription is $40 which is a lot less, but at the same time with careful purchasing a whole act could be bought for $40. Like everyone else on this thread I am only speculating, and at present I have not parted with my money (and have yet to decide) perhaps I should have stated that at the start so that those who would not therefore be interested in opinion wouldn't have to read it (but tough). I think what would help me is if there was a little more dialogue from Real secrets, so far only two posts, the second of which hasn't really helped matters. This could be fantastic, many of the ingredients appear to be in place, but as any decent cook knows, just having the right ingredients doesn't mean a great dish. best wishes David |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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On 2012-02-24 20:41, toberman wrote: I do not think this would be a good idea. I rather like the pro/con open forum, and feel I often gain a lot from the opposite points of view. Certainly, it can become heated, sometimes even personal, but if it gets too far afield or redundant, it is fairly each to pass it by. I also don't think it is hurting Real Secrets one bit, as some pretty heavy hitters on the Café are siding them. I have expressed my doubts in this thread, and I thank Steve Brooks for letting this thread go in its own direction. If anything, the back and forth is causing me to come around to the positive views. Now I am trying to decide if I go for the whole year, or 3 months... I like the way Cameron put it, and I am looking at this as a adventure! Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-02-25 01:38, FrenchDrop wrote: No, it's not a snooty thing. It's reality. If some people are going to get negatively stressed out and anxious over a $144 gamble, then maybe they should wait until others have reported back on the quality of the product, for the sake of their peace of mind. For others, it's not a huge source of stress, either because of their faith in the current endorsements, or because they can afford the risk to their discretionary income.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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billmarq Special user State near Arizona 570 Posts
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At $12.00 a month it is not an enormous investment, especially considering that the subscription can be cancelled. I do believe, however, that the automatic renewal function should be an option rather than something that must be cancelled. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Honi soit quit mal y pense.
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2097 Posts
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Another thing that kind of bothers me is that Real Secrets says never to throw anything away, and even a stamp could have a secret in it. I don't have the room to be collecting shipping boxes and envelopes, and I would paranoid throwing them out.
Posted: Feb 25, 2012 5:13pm I also think what they are doing is ingenious, marketing to magicians who want material that other magicians don't have, or know about. I also don't like how just because you don't know what you are getting everyone assumes it is the best material in the world. Positive or negative, this is exactly the publicity Real Secrets wants. They are sitting back "secretly" laughing at all the hype. I am just surprised at how many magicians are falling for it all. It is a risk, and you can't review it in detail, even after you pay for it. Just too fishy to me. Will they also have a separate forum so that the select elite few can all discuss presentations amongst each other, and laugh at those outside the "inner circle"? The main reason they don't want you describing or showing the effects is becaue they want to keep magicians buying them, whether or not they are good or crap. That is main foucus of this marketing technique.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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Chessmann Inner circle 4247 Posts
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This is just respected magicians putting out magic, and people buying it - there is nothing new, except the marketing/secrecy re: the exact effects to be received.
Those who buy will own the effects, those who don't will not, just like always.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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MagicBrent Inner circle 2574 Posts
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I proudly signed up. I've been a member here for so many years that even though I don't personally know the staff of the Café, how could they NOT put out a quality product when their very reputation is on the line. I only hope it's occasionally DVD and not just an occasional gaffes card or packet trick with directions...
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billmarq Special user State near Arizona 570 Posts
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I do not perceive this marketing approach as being all that different from the original Learn Magic at Home mail order course offered by Harlan Tarbell more than fifty years ago. As I recall, the first monthly lesson from Tarbell was the disappearing coin in a glass of water and included the necessary gimmick. I assume this "course" is not intended for raw beginners and does not include commonly known effects.
Honi soit quit mal y pense.
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Chessmann Inner circle 4247 Posts
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On 2012-02-25 20:22, billmarq wrote: Oh, my, what an uproar there would be! 
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts
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That "disappearing coin in a glass of water" was actually one of the best tricks in Tarbell 1, IMO. I'd definitely settle for a modern day invention of equal merit (not a rehash, of course).
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts
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If they can be a 2012 version of what Tarbell offered us, we're in for a great ride.
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billmarq Special user State near Arizona 570 Posts
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On 2012-02-25 22:15, Zombie Magic wrote: I agree. Perhaps the more vocal skeptics do not know about Tarbell and what a success it was. Tarbell was a mail order course with 60 lessons before it turned into a six-volume and then eight-volume library. I am cautiously optimistic about Real Secrets, but haven't made up my mind yet whether to kick in or not.
Honi soit quit mal y pense.
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Roland Henning Special user Kiel, Germany 511 Posts
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Being one of the more vocal skeptics I am well aware of the similarities to Tarbell's lessons. I'm gonna give you a different example. Let's assume you are a pretty decent juggler. You know the basics and work on your 5 ball routine. Now there is this guy, he won't tell who he is, asking your for money. In turn you will get juggling lessons. Unfortunately he will not say what is in those lessons. So you have no way to compare the stuff you might be getting with the stuff you can do already.
Would you do it? It could contain just simple three ball stuff and all of the basics you already know. Or it could be way too hard. It over simplifies things I know, Bu I would like to know what I'm getting. At least a detail description of the effects. Tarbell did that! |
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Bràth 3640 Posts
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I am a fully paid up member.
Rest assured I'll be giving my opinion here once I start receiving stuff.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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JCheng Veteran user 313 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-02-26 04:47, Roland Henning wrote: But in this case we DO know that Michael Weber and Max Maven are involved (they already said it). If they were lying or didn't deliver what they promise to be good stuff their reputation will be seriously affected. |
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Roland Henning Special user Kiel, Germany 511 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-02-26 13:13, JCheng wrote: Yes and that indeed gives me hope, but it doesn't really make up for the fact that the business method used here is unethical at best. Buying a pig in a poke. I have outgrown that. |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2097 Posts
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I have been in magic 31 years and I am also well aware of the Tarbell course. I did not subscribe to that either as I was not around back then. But I did get the books many years ago after "flipping through them" at a local magic shop. So I knew what I was buying.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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Posted: Feb 25, 2012 06:38 am 
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