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billmarq Special user State near Arizona 570 Posts 
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The Real Secrets approach to marketing their wares is for me another another step in the wrong direction that I see being taken by members of this industry. I probably don't need to go into the specifics of the RS deal as we have had more than enough discussion on that. Even before RS came along I was put off by the way so many magicians, some of them very young, feel it necessary to market every little nuance to an effect that enters their imaginations. It is common for us to pay $30.00 or more for a single trick DVD which may only contain a variation on some method of producing an old effect. Previously on the Café, I made one or two people angry when I criticized a recent product, pointing out that I already own the prop necesary for that trick and that all the "entrepreneur" did was to repackage the gimmick and offer instructions on how to use it differently from its original use.
As I stated earlier, it is obvious to me that RS is not interested in mass marketing their scheme, but are happy with a smaller group of subscribers they call a club. Still, we are talking about maybe $100,000.00 in commerce in the first year, more or less. Had I been aware of their "pig in a poke" approach, enhanced by the sense of exclusivity, but enforced by required compliance with unstated rules, I definitely would have included a jab at them in my video. Ultimately, I suppose that subscribing to their service is no worse than buying something resembling the Blammo Wonder Deck (a real item sold under an entirely different name that I bought from a catalogue some fifty years ago) only to discover that the magic was not real, or at least not repeatable or examinable. @Rockwell - your criticism is valid. If I were to redo this video skit in a more professional way, I would introduce and demonstrate the product sooner and then perhaps discuss its origin. Thanks to everyone who took the time to watch and comment. I really appreciate it. Now, back to our regular program...
Honi soit quit mal y pense.
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toberman Loyal user 202 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-03-19 14:34, Zombie Magic wrote: It's very exciting. I have a GREAT feeling about this project. For me it's similar to getting Genii and Magic magazines every month. I have no idea what articles, tricks, reviews, etc they will contain and that's why it's fun when they arrive every month. Terry |
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GaryLee Loyal user 275 Posts
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Several of us were recently discussing and asking each other about how creator's are paying their taxes on the effects, ebooks, etc they market. I won't make assumptions, but we did talk to a few young creator's who admitted that they don't claim their earnings from selling ebooks, or routines.
I was wondering how many other creator's don't claim their earnings they make from their ebooks, and routines they market. Is it something we should be doing? Or, is it okay to not pay taxes on those earnings? |
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toberman Loyal user 202 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-03-19 19:28, GaryLee wrote: What does that have to do with the Real Secrets thread? |
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GaryLee Loyal user 275 Posts
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Nothing! What's your point?
If you haven't noticed, there is nothing to discuss about real secrets...it's a secret! 
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bg Veteran user Indy 313 Posts
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I still am amazed. I own a small contracting business and as you can imagine in the current economy making a living is hard. I have to really sell myself and my work more than I ever have in nearly 25 yrs in business. It seams I'm doing exactly the opposite as the real secrets team. I wonder how much money can be had by selling unknown products to a small but ( loyal?) customer base who you could be anonymous with and then constantly reopen every so often under a diff name with a new launch? Seems way easier than the way I'm doing it.
I can't think of a single instance where I'd spend money without knowing for sure what I'm getting and who from. Maybe if I were wealthy? But for me my budget doesn't allow for a lottery type purchase Btw. The quality of the product makes no difference if you don't know before you spend....a lottery ticket can pay off too but I'm not into that either |
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-03-19 19:46, bg wrote: It's $12 a month. I don't think you have to be "wealthy" to swing that. Where I live this is less than the cost of a movie ticket. If you think this is some kind of scam to make someone rich, then you haven't bothered to multiply $12 by a few hundred people. Nobody is going to get rich from this. |
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GaryLee Loyal user 275 Posts
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Have you ever received an anonymous email saying send me $12 and I will send you a ticket to watch a movie. They don't tell you what kind of movie it is, nor will you know who is in it, or what it's about.
Some would be curious, and make the purchase, no doubt, but I think it's safe to say that most of us wouldn't. I don't believe bg says anything about it being a scam, but you can't expect people to just lay down money with such a risk. Those who have may indeed reap the rewards, but it's not about $12 a month, it's the principal of not encouraging this kind of marketing model. That doesn't mean RC is a scam, it means in any other circumstance most of us would consider it a scam. |
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts
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Well, I don't want to get in the way of you all making your stand on principal, but this marketing model is ancient.
Here you go: http://www.amazingclubs.com/ Now, I can sign up for the "magic trick of the month" club (Real Secrets) or I can sign up for the Salsa-of-the-month club over there at Amazing Clubs. I don't know what I'm going to get with either of them. The part that you're bothered by. The "you don't know what you're going to get" part. Is the part that other people are excited by. You could just go to grocery store and buy your favorite salsa once a month too. But being exposed to different things is kind of the idea behind these sorts of clubs. Are you of the impression that traditional marketing models have prevented crap from being released in the magic world? That's a sweet notion, but unfortunately it's bull----. I actually think this model puts a stronger burden on Real Secrets to release good stuff. They can't rely on pre-release hype of a specific effect, or a hastily put together demo to bring them more customers. They need to have satisfied customers giving it great word of mouth if they want to exist in the long run. And the only way to get that is by over-delivering. |
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GaryLee Loyal user 275 Posts
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AmazingClubs is NOT a secret club. They are open about who they are, and they have a gaurantee. Huge difference between these two business models. Not even comparable, sorry.
Plus, you have no idea what it is that bothers me. 
RS business model puts no pressure on them whatsoever. The pressure is on the members who have nothing but faith to rely on. If they get screwed they have absolutely no recourse to go after RS. (Not saying RS would do that, I have no idea.)No one knows who they are. So if they were to just up and quit the project, no one will ever know who they were or how to track them down. |
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-03-19 19:28, GaryLee wrote: This is really off-topic, no matter your excuse. Why are you possibly bringing this up, and twice at that? Drag it over to the Ethics forum where you can have at it with other like minded debaters. This is for RS, and whether or not any of them pay their taxes is none of your or our business. It's getting to be innuendo'd slurs. And, I'd like to say, so far I like this business model just fine.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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GaryLee Loyal user 275 Posts
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Who are you again? Did I miss the meeting where everyone voted you the authority around here. Get over it and have some fun.
Where do I bring it up twice? I brought it up once and....ah forget it.
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-03-19 22:40, GaryLee wrote: Gary, that's MY point: Get over it....the 'business model' you object to. Have some fun.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-03-19 22:36, GaryLee wrote: Sorry, Gary. If you think there are "huge differences" between a magic-trick of the month club and a salsa (or anything else) of-the-month club, you're mistaken. The two business models are identical. They even have identical guarantees. If they "up and quit the project" I don't need to know who they are. They aren't collecting cash and checks from people. If I have an issue with them I will get my money refunded by paypal. Do you think Gaetan Bloom, Cyril, Michael Weber, Robert Neale, Max Maven and John Kennedy would allow their names to be used to sell something they thought wasn't legit? Here's the thing: this product isn't for you. That's fine! To you this is "such a risk." To others it's not. Maybe you don't need to invest your time writing about something that's not for you? |
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writeall Special user Midland, Michigan 930 Posts
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I've already gotten at least $12 worth of entertainment from this discussion.
Thank you Real Secrets! |
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GaryLee Loyal user 275 Posts
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They are far from being identical. Wow, I'm surprised I have to say that. I know who is running AmazingClubs. They are not trying to hide their identities. You can easily look them up and find out they are a registered business under the name Amazingclubs. They also have a 1-800 number to contact them directly. Are you kidding me. (lol) The only thing similiar is that they send you something every month, the business models are completely different.
No you can't get a refund from paypal after 45 days after the date of payment. Those who prepaid when it first was advertised cannot use paypal to file for a refund if the 45 days has elapsed. I don't even have a paypal account and I at least know that. If you were to ask Paypal for a refund they would have to take the refund from RS paypal account. If they have no money in their paypal account, they can't take it from their bank account because they are unverified, which means they did not register their bank with paypal. You should check your facts before coming on here and thinking you know what you are talking about. The gaurantees are not identical either. Some peoples kids! (lol) Oh, and I am having fun, my post about taxes was a result of where my thoughts went after reading the posts about Blammo, so the guy who accussed me of something is wrong, sorry no prize for him either.
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-03-19 23:37, GaryLee wrote: That IS the business model. Quote:
On 2012-03-19 23:37, GaryLee wrote: Let's see, Amazing clubs guarantee: "You may cancel your membership at any time and for any reason. No fine print and no excuses. If you purchased a prepaid membership, you'll receive a prompt refund for any unshipped merchandise." Real Secrets guarantee: " Remember that any member may cancel his membership at any time and receive a timely pro-rata refund of their application or membership fees." Yup, those are identical. Quote:
On 2012-03-19 23:37, GaryLee wrote: Wrong again, ding-dong. They're a verified member on paypal. Hey... but nice try! |
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts
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"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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GaryLee Loyal user 275 Posts
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Only recently did they become verified. They were not always. Everything else I say I stand by. You still don't know what you are talking about. Argue all you want, but I have better things than get into a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.
I don't care about RS business model. I got over it pages ago. Even Sirbrad has gotten over it. maybe you should think about getting over it. Your defending something you know nothing about. Until April first, it's hush hush now. Just because some of us agree that the business model is not attractive, doesn't mean we think it's a scam. How are we to know that. Honesty says we don't know either way. So those of you who are so adament about attacking those who don't like the busines model need to get over themselves. It's getting rather childish. |
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FrenchDrop Inner circle I can name that tune in 1647 Posts
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I'm starting to suspect there must be an Internet Law of Conservation of Nastiness. sirbrad hasn't posted in a while, but the thread's still ugly. It's as if the universe compelled others to step in and fill the void of superiority and name-calling he left.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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Posted: Mar 19, 2012 11:10 pm 
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