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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Bràth 3639 Posts 
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On 2012-02-27 13:41, Ray Chelt wrote: Not if you're a magic junkie who needs a fix.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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RNK Inner circle 8277 Posts
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On 2012-02-27 14:43, Jamie Ferguson wrote: Amen to that Brother!!
Check out Bafflingbob.com
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insight Inner circle 3095 Posts
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I agree that some are excited, but perhaps more than some are quite the opposite? I feel sorry for Real Secrets because, despite what I presume are good intentions, there has been a backlash regarding the way in which the organization is promoting itself. I know some of the players involved, and they are true professionals. So, part of my emotion is attributable to this.
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On 2012-02-27 09:22, Cameron Francis wrote: |
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Devious Inner circle 2120 Posts
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An interesting read, real secrets?
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JeremyM0411 Special user Moody, Alabama 608 Posts
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On 2012-02-27 16:30, Devious wrote: That was a VERY interesting read! |
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insight Inner circle 3095 Posts
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Wow, even Richard Kaufman, someone whom I consider a genius in the field of magic, has REAL DOUBTS about REAL SECRETS...I hope that some of the greatest magicians of our time have not been duped into a business deal by a shady profit-maximizing, greedy citizen/s...the magicians know their magic, but do they know about the business practices behind the magic, which some on Genii are claiming as illegal? I hope all of this is legitimate, for the sake of my fellow performers.
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MagicBrent Inner circle 2709 Posts
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Too bad the tricks don't release until April....this is gonna be one long thread...
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FrenchDrop Inner circle I can name that tune in 1647 Posts
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On 2012-02-27 14:43, Jamie Ferguson wrote: Yes, it's a shame there aren't A ZILLION OTHER WAYS to get that fix. 
Seriously, I'm surprised that the anonymity of the person(s) behind this doesn't give more people pause. I can understand the marketing value of keeping the product itself a sort of surprise grab bag -- where you don't know what material you're going to get in a given month, from which creator -- as that clearly has a lot of people excited. But I don't see the marketing value of keeping the Real Secrets proprietor a secret. Where's the value for the customer in not knowing who's getting your money, who's responsible for sending you the product and ensuring its quality, and who's responsible for refunding your money if you're not happy? And if there's no value for the customer in hiding the identity of the person(s) getting the money and holding the reins...who does this anonymity benefit? And why? Why do they so clearly not want any potential customers to know who they are? Real Secrets may turn out to be the 21st Century's Stars of Magic series. It's possible. If it is, I'll probably sign up! But I think charter subscribers should go into it with their eyes fully open...and telling yourself the anonymity of the Real Secrets proprietor(s) is for the customer's benefit kinda runs counter to that.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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insight Inner circle 3095 Posts
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Real Secrets has assumed the philosophy of, "play by our rules, or don't become our customer". Well, now I get the feeling that Real Secrets is going to give in and reveal some details. But then do current customers have the right to say, "hey, how come you changed the rules on us, the ones you forced us to play by in the first place?" Seems as if REAL SECRETS is in a tough position, and that there are winners and losers, no matter which way REAL SECRETS goes on this...the right way, perhaps, would have been to be fully transparent from the beginning?
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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On 2012-02-27 09:57, silverking wrote: "Cause every hand's a winner, and every hand's a loser"... Yup. But daddy done tole me, "son, don't you never go with none that's feels they got all the say-so, cause if'n they be righteous, they be workin wit' ya' and makin' a good life for both you and them- if'n it gotta be their way or da hi-way, you best be out there quik gettin ur thumb to workin', 'cause any udder chance you take is a helluva long ride on a log rollin' down a steep hill"... but that was just daddy talkin'...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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insight Inner circle 3095 Posts
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It would be unfortunate if those that are the wonderful creators of the effects have signed a contract with the founder of "REAL SECRETS" that basically keeps their mouths shut. There are contracts in place that can financially harm individuals if they speak about business arrangements (or anything, really) that are deemed to be confidential. Based on how quiet magicians who are a part of this have been, I hope my fears do not equate to this reality. I also hope that potential customers do not alienate the wonderful magicians that are a part of this, but rather realize that the founder/s of REAL SECRETS is/are not necessarily these wonderful magicians that have great brand names and reputations.
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rnaviaux Loyal user 287 Posts
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I've gone back and forth on this. If its a club they are putting together which is super-secretive then it seems like you agree tot he rules up front and takes your chances.
However, for 150 dollars you can acquire some seriously awesome books on magic that have come out recently and have spent a dollar per effect or less. And almost always get a look at the table of contents beforehand as well as some reviews of the book. And for the most part no worries about performing said material. |
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Xiqual Inner circle Upper left quadrant 4937 Posts
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Funny,
I joined the Genii online to access the old issues of Genii. I paid $200 for a "lifetime" membership. I joined in 2007, I used it occasionally to research effects and then suddenly two months ago I could not access the site. I emailed Richard Kaufman who informed me they were closing the lifetime memberships but I could subscribe to Genii For $60 a year and use a pro-rated refund to start my subscription. I took a partial refund and closed my account. So Mr. Kaufman has little room to speak about sour deals. James Quote: On 2012-02-27 17:06, insight wrote:
Still with the Chinese circus
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shaunproof Loyal user Parts Unknown 233 Posts
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Regarding the automatic payment: Couldn't you just cancel next year before the next payment was due? If I don't like it, that's what I'm going to do. Or are you talking about the monthly thing? Well cancelling it after you make the first yearly payment is indeed cancelling it before the next payment is due -- a year in advance, but true. Why should you have auto-renew on when you haven't even received an issue. Wouldn't it make sense to have the auto-renew on after you receive a few issues and are happy with the product? Why are they insisting that auto-renew be on? How does that benefit the customer? |
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writeall Special user Midland, Michigan 930 Posts
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True James. It's an unfortunate fact of being a magic consumer -- caveat emptor.
I wish I could go back and reread some of the pre-release stuff on Jay Sankey's big box o' whatever. But I think those threads all got deleted. |
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shaunproof Loyal user Parts Unknown 233 Posts
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On 2012-02-27 22:13, writeall wrote: Don't worry -- this thread won't make it long. |
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Dan McLean.jpg "View Profile") Inner circle Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur 1261 Posts
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To me, there is no question here. If you don't like it, don't join.
My issue as someone who has joined is how in the world they will keep what they forward to their subscribers secret? History proves that a high price tag does not stop torrents and illegal downloads. That should prove interesting. Regardless I'm betting $144 on names like Mike Weber and Max Maven. I like my chances. |
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3400 Posts
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My money is staying in my pocket. Besides, I have more magic dvds, books and effects that I could never get around to performing in ten lifetimes. Yes it's fun do learn new techniques and ideas. I just don't like the way this is being handled in many respects. Does anyone remember "The Lecture Network" that went down the tubes with all the big name endorsements?
I do hope that those of you that joined are happy with with what is being offered as well as how your money is being handled regarding the special automatic payments. Good luck  seriously!
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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edh Inner circle 4697 Posts
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Very suspicious if you have no choice but to auto-renew. When do they bill you for the auto-renew?
Magic is a vanishing art.
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writeall Special user Midland, Michigan 930 Posts
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On 2012-02-27 23:15, Dan McLean wrote: Dan, that's the trouble for me. I really want to like it. I really want to get it. I wish there wasn't this bad track record in conjuring sales. But there is and I don't want to be Charlie Brown, endlessly trying to kick that football. I'm not ticked at Real Secrets, I'm ticked at a hobby where I can't trust those who want to sell to me. I hate it. I really, really wish it weren't so. For all its flaws, WPR gave me a look at stuff and opinions I thought were honest. I didn't always agree with them, but I did feel like I had more information after watching an episode. Secrecy has been abused in our art and trust is a hard thing to win back. So, yeah, I want Real Secrets to work. It's no fun being a cynic. |
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Posted: Feb 27, 2012 07:43 pm 
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