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jw_2101
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Oh, there is one section of the trick that (to me) does not really make sense from an audience point of view. That's the part where the magician counts backward form 10 to 1 then back up to 11. How do I explain this part? Any ideas? You?
regds
Jonathan Smile
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Doug Conn
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I don't have any suggestions for that conundrum,
but here's a bit of advice:
be sure to check out Eric Meads treatment of the (11 card) trick in Volume #2.
It's a KILLER.
Paul Chosse
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I'm so glad someone brought this up! It is a terrific plot, and there are many versions, since it has been worked on by many of our finest performers over the last fifty years.

I'm not familiar with the AoA version. Are we talking about the classic Victor 11 card trick? If so, there are "countless", (pun intended!), versions of this. The Fred Kaps bill trick is a terrific version, and Pete Biro may have some details since he knew Kaps pretty well. How about it Pete? I have video of Kaps doing it, but I'm sure there is work on it that hasn't been disclosed.

Gene Gordon has a presentation that is superb, also using bills.

The original was in the Willane series (Methods for Miracles). Frank Shields combined the original with some Marlo methods (see the Spade book...), and came up with a version that ended with the entire deck vanishing and, GET THIS, appearing under the spectator’s hands!

Marlo explored the plot and I'm sure that Mike Powers could supply us with references. How about it, Mike? Super Count is coming to mind, though I haven't looked at it for a while.

I'd love to see this topic get some serious attention if anyone is interested in working on it. Let's pool our collective knowledge and see where it goes.

I'll start by giving you one of the versions I've done in shows for years. Bare bones:

”Gonna do a poker demo. Spectator deals out two poker hands. My hand is short. He gives me another card. Still short. Another card, still short. One more, and now too many! Give some back, still wrong. Finally I say forget it, we'll play gin!” Combine the two poker hands, and there are nine, need one more. Try over and over, always too many, or not enough. Finally get the hand right (ten cards). Have the spectator deal another ten cards to represent the second, opponents, hand. The count is right. Now, the cards across, three cards from my hand to his. This to demonstrate how cheats pass cards to improve their, or their partners, hand. Cards pass one at a time, and he covers his hand with both hands on the table. He counts the cards as each one is passed. Ends with the entire deck vanishing to appear under the spectator’s hands, which are still covering his gin hand, on the table! (Since the cards the partner passed aren't helping, might as well pick what he wants from the deck!)

Methods include some Victor, some Marlo, some Al Baker. Several different false counts, palming techniques (Erdnase, mostly), Vernon finesses, a Devant method for the loading of the extra cards for the cards across, etc.

This is a long routine, but it moves right along, with lots of room for comedy, and lots of magic happening all the time. The Shields finish with the whole deck is a stunner, and anyone who has ever seen it done will tell you so. Vernon brought a cartful of magi from LA to Franks bar, (The Pony Club), in Oakland, just to see this trick! And let me tell you, the bar was no place you'd want to be, longshoreman and hookers, fights, cops, bodies strewn about, (this is not literary license, it is the truth - ask Biro!) It was ugly!

Nothing particularly hard about any of it, but there is a management aspect of the routine that is supremely important. I would love to hear what others have done, are doing, want to do with this trick. Anyone?

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
jw_2101
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Yes the plot is really great. And its really one of the tricks that lets you "play" with the audience. Yes I do think the blindfold version in book 2 is good too. But the reversed selection in the book 1 version is really a strong ending. Just wondering if anybody had a solution to the "lack of clarity" issue?

regards,
Jonathan
He is no fool who would give what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
djvirtualreality
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This seems like it would take a long time to learn and read. Is this really worth it? I use some tricks from AOA 1, but not many.
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jw_2101
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I don't think the individual moves are hard, but there is of course the effort of remembering it all. I have performed it about 8 times live. The reactions are good, but about 3-4 times I get questions later about the counting backward part. So that's why I'm posting. Its a fantastic effect and one of the long tricks I find worthwhile to remember.

regards,
Joanthan
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MField2000
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I saw David Roth KILL with Derek Dingle's version of the trick. Yes, David Roth doing a card trick.

Matt Field
Doug Conn
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FYI

David Williamson has a GREAT ("3" card) version of this effect that is simple in effect and method (a few well timed palms and some Elmsley counts.) For more info, Check Williamson's Wonders or Sleight of Dave #1.

regards,
Doug Conn
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Mark Ennis
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Quote:
On 2003-09-24 08:01, djvirtualreality wrote:
This seems like it would take a long time to learn and read. Is this really worth it? I use some tricks from AOA 1, but not many.


Takes a long time to read?

The 11 card "trick" is a great effect. It does take a long time to read it but it will take much longer to perfect it.

I don't know Paul Harris but if I ever meet him, I'll ask if he can write briefer descriptions from now on. Smile
ME
djvirtualreality
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Yes that would be nice. lol. I HATE READING, unless it's something I feel interested in. Not saying I'm not interested in magic… well you know what I mean. lol.
Life is an illusion, death is reality.
jasonchr
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I agree with Doug - check out Eric Mead's incredible handling of this effect. He really does take it to a new level. Also, the Carlyle False Count is one of the best false counts you can learn.

Take care,
Jason
The aspirant should acquire the resolve to explore and expand his talents to the best of his ability. With a thorough commitment to quality comes a sense of accomplishment and unique satisfaction.

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Maestro
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I was sort of disappointed that the necessary sleight to perform the effect was in AOA vol. 3. I only have volume one. Smile
jw_2101
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Mmm, I don’t think its an AoA exclusive sleight. It may be available elsewhere. Carlile false count ...

but I'm not sure where.
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kryptonite76
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I always thought the counting backward part was rather awkward as well. Just skip it. The trick is still fine without it. David Acer has a nice version too with a parallel universe theme.
Maestro
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Do you know where I might find another source for the Carlile Count? Smile
jw_2101
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Quote:
On 2003-09-25 12:19, kryptonite76 wrote:
I always thought the counting backward part was rather awkward as well. Just skip it. The trick is still fine without it. David Acer has a nice version too with a parallel universe theme.


Uh ... how would it end then?

regards,
Joanthan
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Doug Conn
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Quote:
Do you know where I might find another source for the Carlyle count?

Yup, check:
"The Complete Works of Derek Dingle."

Kaufman describes Dingles routine (& method for doing this count on P. 216.) He also mentions that Dingle uses some of Carlyle's ideas that can be found in Hugard's "More Card Manipulations" No. 3

Dingles routine is SUPERB.

regards,
Doug Conn
http://www.dougconn.com
kryptonite76
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Uh... how would it end then?

With the big 7 H spelled out with the cards.
jw_2101
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Ohohohoh!!! But, but, but!! That would be missing out the fantastic reversed card revelation!! What a shame.

I think that's too much of a loss.
IMHO
Smile
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Dan LeFay
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Paul,
Kaps version to me is THE way to do it. I learned it years ago from Ger Copper and it is a really "packs small plays big" routine.
The only thing I'm still wondering about is an answer on the question that will raise after the routine...
What happened with the money? I hear that question a lot!
It would be so cool if the missing money was found in the wallet of one of the two assistants! That would make an otherwise perfect routine, really Full Circle.
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths,
that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes,
and forgot."
Neil Gaiman
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