I thought the saying was that even a broken clock tells the right time two times a day. I never heard the dead fish one but it will immediately go into my note book of brilliant tommy observations. Wow. I'm really learning a lot from you tommy.

Its an old one....

W. C. Fields

1935 Mississippi

The character in it is you.


On 2012-01-26 14:45, AMcD wrote:
@Cagliostro,

Can you make some moves at the table? I mean, have you got a decent bottom deal or can you second deal. Can you stack a set, etc?


I don’t know the reason for your question, but that is all pretty basic stuff. Let me very briefly give you a hint to my progression on this “gambling” type mastery. I am not going to boast nor am I going to tip anything good, but I know some are curious. So take the following for what it is worth, if anything.

When I was 10 – 11 years old, I was an amateur magician and would occasionally go to downtown NY and visit Max Holden’s and Lou Tannen’s Magic shops on 42nd street off Broadway. (I’m from the Bronx originally so it was about a 45 minute subway ride to Manhattan.) One day at Tannen’s, when I was 13 years old, I saw a copy of the Expert at the Card Table on the store’s book shelf and took it home. Once I started to read it that was the end of magic for me. I was enchanted with all the moves in the card cheating section and by 14 years of age, had learned and mastered all the run-ups, bottom deal, holding out, hops, cull shuffles, skinning the hand, etc., in Erdnase because at that time, I thought Erdnase was the be all, end all when it came to gambling moves. Since I was studying classical piano and practicing for 2-3 hours a day on the Steinway, all these gambling moves came very easily. It was actually a piece of cake compared to classical piano. Once I got the bug, I could not stop practicing this stuff, much to the chagrin of my parents who for some strange reason thought learning classical piano was more important that learning how to deal base.

Then I got exposed to some information (which I am not going to get into) at 14 years old, that gave me a very good hint as to how the big money hustlers were making the big money plays, and it was not Erdnase. Now I was really hooked. There were no videos or DVDs in those days, most magicians knew nothing about gambling moves, this all was very hush-hush, so I had to hunt and scrounge to pick up bits and pieces wherever I could locate them over the next several years. Scarne on Cards, Scarne on Dice, How to Control Fair Dice, MacDougall’s Card Mastery, Gamblers Don’t Gamble and Danger in the Cards, Sharps and Flats, Buckley’s Card Control, Expert Card Technique, Eddie McQuire’s Walter Scott manuscript, Merlin’s…and a Pack of Cards and Hugard’s More Card Manipulation Vol. 2 (for the riffle stack and riffle stack double duke), The Sealed Book, The Open Book, Moss’ Card Cheats – How They Operate, all of Vernon’s books, plus the KC Card Company’s catalog. Some of these books were devoted exclusively to gambling and cheating, others just had an occasional move here and there.

I was addicted, became a “move” junky and mastered just about every move you can think of, numerous variations therein and developed quite a few original concepts. By the time I was 17 years old, I was very skillful and extremely accomplished (but not “capable”) with dice and cards. Because of this (and because I was from the Bronx), I thought I was King Kong and I really knew what this was all about. Boy was I wrong. I was just a glorified wise-ass NY half-smart who had mastered a lot of moves, had a lot of knowledge ABOUT cheating and though I was the be all, end all when it came to card and dice hstling. I was in for some serious surprises.

I went into the Marine Corps shortly thereafter so as not to be drafted in the Army, and while stationed at the Marine Corps Air Station, El Toro at Santa Ana, CA, I used to travel to Gardena and sneak into the card rooms there (I was not 21 yet). While playing there I figured out two moves to beat both the Draw poker game and also the Low Ball draw game. One was completely original and I have never had anyone pick up on it or suspect it, nor have anyone ever written about it or exposed it. I subsequently found out the Low Ball move was being used by other hustlers in the big games played by a few of the big name poker names of today.

After being discharged from the Marine Corps at 21 years of age, I moved to Las Vegas and got involved with gambling. I am not going to tell you how it happened, but got duked into some of the top Vegas active professional hustlers. Because I took my Bronx heritage with me, “never tip, never rat out anyone, never expose anything to chumps or half-smarts, never boast about your ability, always play the IG,” I got to learn about things I never dreamed of and which I am not going to go into. That is where I jumped from being proficient to capable.

The way it worked was the good stuff that was currently being used was passed on by direct contact on a need to know basis to those who were active in hustling. Nobody tipped the current gaffs because it was their livelihood and to expose what they were doing to the non-hustlers would be to make the gaff useless and dangerous. On a couple of occasions, people got killed for saying the wrong thing to the wrong people. So regardless what anyone on this board thinks, it is still done that way today with the new, current stuff that is being used. It is not in books or on DVDs and won’t be until it gets played out and the hustlers have gone on to something else.

By the way AMcD, I hope my explanation was not too brief and I answered your question sufficiently

Commodore Jackson: My last encounter with the redskins was over thirty-five years ago. I was a mere stripling.
Skeptical Passenger in pilot house: Is that so?
[skeptically]
Commodore Jackson: I whipped out my revolver...
Skeptical Passenger in pilot house: Revolvers weren't invented thirty-five years ago.
[sneering]
Commodore Jackson: Uh... uh... I know that, but the Indians didn't know it. It doesn't matter - I threw it away.
Female passenger: Oh, how exciting - please don't interrupt.
Commodore Jackson: I had just swum the rapids. I had my canoe under one arm and a Rocky Mountain goat under the other.
Skeptical Passenger in pilot house: How could you swim without the use of your arms?
Commodore Jackson: Uh, uh... in those days I had, uh, I had very strong legs. Uh, excuse me
[sheepishly doffs hat to woman]
Commodore Jackson: , very strong limbs.
Female passenger: You must have been full of fire in your youth.
Commodore Jackson: I had to carry fire insurance until I was over forty. As I arrived at the river bank, I was encountered by the entire tribe of the Shug Indians. The most ferocious... have you ever been to Shug country?
Skeptical Passenger in pilot house: No, I haven't.
[glaring at the Commodore]
Commodore Jackson: Uh, that's fine. I unsheathed my Bowie knife and
[slowly and dramatically]
Commodore Jackson: cut a path through this wall of human flesh, dragging my canoe behind me.
Female passenger: [collapsing] Oh, oh, oh... oh.
Commodore Jackson: Ah, I'm sorry. Perhaps I've gone too far.
Skeptical Passenger in pilot house: What, what happened to the goat?
[no trace of skepticism]
Commodore Jackson: He was very good with mustard

Hey, the first part of that post immediatley above is pretty good. Who is this Cagliostro guy? Sound like he really knows what he is talking about.

However, good try tommy. But no matter how hard you try, I have someone else in mind to be my press secretary. While I appreciate your effort in promoting me, I really need no help in that regard. Thanks anyway. Once again, good try on your part.

Guys, I wanned be invited when you get married together.

I think Tommy had a stroke while writing his post.

Yes it was a stroke of luck finding Cagliostro in The Mississippi

Tommy, my friend, don't you think it's time to give up?

Your prose full of mere British elliptic humor is becoming more and more incomprehensible and Cag is a cool guy deserving credit and respect (if you ask me).

My two pennies.

AMcD:
You are right on the money.
Cag has provided this forum with the most thought provoking and insightful post I think this forum has ever seen.
Add 2 more pennies.

Raise sixpence! You think you play with babies?

Since were at this magician and poker topic, What do you guys think the other pro poker players think of Antonio the magician??

Good question, I am not sure what they think to him. I recall him doing some tricks in the casino and players saying it was good but critical of the size of his briefs. He did Rub a Dub and so on.

That is actually an interesting question in some ways. I think the players look at Antonio as a magician who is also a poker “star.” Because of his status in the poker community, his TV appearances, the fact that most players will never get to play in a cash game with Antonio and that he plays almost exclusively in games with a center dealer, most would assume he has little opportunity to use any sleight of hand chicanery and that he would have too much to lose in that regard if he tried. Now if he played in private games and got a chance to deal, or if he went bust and got a job as a poker dealer, I suggest that might be a different story.

In my opinion, it is not the same as a working card cheat looking to beat private games, where each player gets to deal, doing card tricks for the group(s) he plays with.

In any event, apparently the big money to be made by poker stars nowadays is to be part of a poker website and allegedly steal the money that way. Using a pen or Electronic Funds Transfers beats any sleight of hand move you can think of by a HUGE margin.

(As a courtesy to the sensible and rational members of the BB, confrontational posts or posts designed to pollute or derail the meaning and intent of the thread, or of my posts, will not be acknowledged.)