I find myself having difficulty convincing believers and in most cases pastors.. that gospel magic is not evil.. I have done a few youth group performances, but they weren't full shows. Most recently I did this small performance using the "Celebrity Jack Ass" routine. I did a routine where I said how people know more about celebrities then the bible.. I did this test with celebrity cards and characters of the bible cards, this went off pretty well. It sparked a lot of interest in future fillers. Yet many in the churches don't like it when I use the word "magic" they are in disgust when I use the words "gospel magic". I've been trying to pitch my show (if you want to call it that), to some of the bigger churches and one big Christian youth group center here.. I spend more time giving links to(the fcm.org, or that write up on Christian Magic) then I do trying to market myself..

Is it me ???

Two things, don't use the word "magic", use the word "illusion" or "surprises of the eyes" as Laflin uses. Secondly, you are probably not going to convince a pastor of a church who thinks gospel magic is evil, that it's not evil. They have their view just like you have your view.

Wow - every time I hear this I am wondering where are these churches. I have yet to have an issue with the churches I perform in.

my stage name has the word magic right in there and yet they call and book me.


yes I know they are out there but I really did not think it was this big of a deal these days.
maybe 20 years ago. that's when I remember having some churches question things but in recent years no.

as for how to combat this.
first things first
churches use music yet many say its evil. just because the enemy uses something to take down believers does not make it evil.

second yes if you have a concern don't use the word magic. I am also very careful that in all my gospel or church shows that I make it very clear what I do is a trick and what God does is a miracle. I promote that god is the Real Deal and I am just a man with lots of cool props that help me make the magic happen.

I would also make sure that you are praying about what you are to say to these churches. trust the Lord He has a plan for you and He will be faithful to lead you where you need to be.

sam

Both my children go to a provate Christian school. Often I'm asked to a little something for their parties and teh such. I use the phrase 'Magic with a message', this seems to calm most folks nerves

For what it's worth ...
There are several reasons some churches might not like magic. Don't take it personally and don't try to change their mind. If a brief explanation that what you do isn't associated with the black arts or the supernatural isn't enough, thank them for their time, suggest they call your juggler friend or have a game show night.

My thoughts are that no matter what you call it, the audience will recognize it as a magic show and if they are against magic they will not be happy. Although I have changed the name of my show to "comedy variety show" in the description of the show I don't shy away from the word magic. If the client knows that magic would be a no-no in their church, then they know not to book me. I'm OK with that.

I have experienced, as I'm sure others have, times when church clients have booked me with the instructions don't say the word magic, don't use magic wands, etc. I'm happy to comply with their wishes.

I agree that using words other than magic can create in-roads to these clients but again, the audience will perceive it to be what it is, a magic show. If that makes them unhappy they'll probably yell at the pastor.

I always let the church know up front that in my show within the first 5 minutes I explain what magic is & more importantly what magic isn't.

Living in the northeast, I find that using the word magic is not a problem as it would be in the "bible belt".

You may never change anyone's mind, but with more performances you do & (hopefully) get positive responses, you may use those "testimonials" to ease concerns about magic & the church.

Mark

Sam-There is a church in our town that refused to display your poster when you came to town because they don't condone "Magic". Ironically, each summer they have a kids camp and have performers come in that use magic as part of their show with, apparently, no issues. We are planning to do magic at their church this Summer at the camp but, heaven forbid, that it be called "Magic"!!

Some people shudder at the word 'magic'. Illusion is a much softer word for these people. Some people I know simply roll their eyes when I speak of 'doing magic'. No amount of explanation will ever change their minds. Another way to promote oneself is to use the word 'entertainer'... then... let the magic begin. And... follow Sam's advice: Pray about what you are going to say and what you are going to do.

I've been there done that so many times I can't even count them. I can't count the times church people have told me how "evil" I am for doing magic. One time, years ago, they even started a bonfire and burned all my magic effects and books..

I've been told "Brother, we saw a demon sitting on your shoulder as you walked down the street!"

One time I was in the grocery store, and I was purchasing a deck of Bicycle cards, some church people were in there, and boy did it ever hit the fan....

Even ended up leaving a church where I was a member, because the Pastor there compared me to a witch doctor....

Those who have NOT run into this closemindedness, in my view, have beat the odds!

You know for all those that say we are being deceitful or evil with our magic as we are hiding the truth of how its done

next time ask the pastor if his wife wears makeup. if he says yes then ask "is she not then being deceitful?"

that should make them think.

LOL

sam

Amazing binky- I did not know that. what a shame and how weird. I had a great time out there and would love to come back with my new show. just let me know. maybe you can get me booked at the big magic convention out there I think it is called magi fest.

Ahhhhh! But some churches don't allow make-up!

Those above probably are to some degree "wives" tales or extremely RARE stories at least including about objections to make-up in the church. Are you Daffy stereotyping churches and/or Christians? I have NEVER heard of such a fowl reaction. There is a contingent of conservative Menonites that attend the FCM convention each year, so even that does not fly. This just quacks me up. It's reduckulous.

I have been in large and small churches all over Michigan, never heard of a church ever once objecting to me for what I "do", or for what my wife has on her face. DaffyDoug, I have no idea what churches you hang out with, but I have never experienced first hand anything even remotely close to what you are talking about. Fess up, did it really ever happen? A duck crying wolf?

MagicBob and SuZie out of Grand Rapids do more than a hundred church programs a year and are booked many months in advance. They flew out of our FCM meeting last Saturday morning as they had a church gig later in Ohio. Our Saturday lecturer, Sheldon Rhodes, who does his VBS program all over the U.S. (and will be in Alaska later this year), has both giant playing cards and a giant jumbo dice in his program performed in churches. Finally, at one time I was chairman of the board of the largest homeless shelter in SW Michigan with over 200 supporting churches- and my "Gospel magic" was part of our fundraising programs for years- yet I never heard one complaint (and many compliments, let alone being elected board chair). This rescue mission and our church sponsored three Andre' Kole programs over the years in Kalamazoo- and these programs were sucessfully promoted in our supporting church bulletins.

So enough is enough, I get fed up with folks posting here that Gospel magic, cards, or even now make-up is taboo in some churches. Then again, machine guns and snake handling may be common in a few churches too. But this is not the norm. In my being involved in Christian organizations and churches for more than 50 years, I have not even ONCE run across any objections to a "Gospel Magic" program.

If there was a book burning or burning of your own personal magic effects, not only would that be against the law, in would cause some newspaper coverage. I doubt if we will be seeing the newspaper link from you anytime soon. Phooey- I am not denying that there may be some churches out there someplace who still object to the use of the word "magic" in any form- I understand that- but that can be easily overcome by using the word "illusion" or "surprises for the eyes-es" as Duane Laflin suggests. But then again, I go all the way back to John deVries (former FCM President) who I worked for in 1971- he was booked for years in advance as well and 95% of the shows I did with him where in churches. That is the reality I have witnessed in proper perspective. I am a member of a Wesleyan church, a conservative "holiness" tradition, and obviously our church and IWU has no trouble with the FCM- and IWU continues to grow like gangbusters with God's continued blessing!

Anyway, that's my "perspective"- I am not going to run out anytime soon and get special fire insurance for my props. There were never any "odds" for me to beat even once in all my years doing "Gospel magic" including even getting one bad reaction to our cable access programs.

I live in the Bible Belt, and we have our meetings in a Baptist church.
Over the years I have worked with many other church groups and have found acceptance of both my puppeteering and magic.

I do believe there are some people that do come against the use of sleight of hand,magic or illusion. During my early career as a counselor, I was asked, by a parent, not to teach magic to her son. She associated it with "Houdini, who as you know used the spirits to do escapes and walk through walls".

I believe on the FCM site there are some great words to share when this happen.

I also believe it is more important to read our Bibles, than to learn the latest trick of the month.

Be safe, well and blessed,

love brother Harris

When dealing with people who react in disgust when you use the word "magic," have you ever considered saying "magic tricks" instead?

I know that some magicians think it's unprofessional for a magician to refer to our art as "tricks," but I have seen some parents appreciate the use of that word: the parent kneels down to the child's level and explains, "See, honey? He said it's a 'trick.' It's not real magic."

In religious settings, the pastor/priest generally appreciates it when you take a minute out of your show to explain that all the magic you seem to perform is just tricks. You explain that you're just so good at what you do that you are able to make the trick happen without them knowing about it. And since they don't know where or when the trick takes place, at the end of the routine something impossible seems to happen before their very eyes!

If they still recoil in horror at the word "magic," I recommend changing "magic" and "magician" to "illusions" and "illusionist," as they are both technically correct descriptions.

And if they still don't approve of what you do, then there's really nothing you can do about it, short of exposing all the secrets behind your tricks (which, of course, I don't recommend). You could educate some of them by teaching them how to do one simple but clever illusion, and see if that changes their minds. It might not, though, so if you try this approach you may end up wasting a good illusion.

(Also, be sure to remove any references to demons and spirits. Those are never appreciated in religious settings, even if they know you are just making them up.)

I have had a few objections by people I know in the church, but never in MY church, which is where I tend to use gospel magic effects. The one who objected most strenuously I explained my perspective and reasoning to and then just let it be. Like MagicBus I am from a conservative Wesleyan denomination (Nazarene) and I know of two other Nazarene Gospel Magicians in our region.

My church, Lighthouse Community Church in Kalamazoo, Michigan, is a Wesleyan Church and hosts our local FCM meetings! IWU is also the site for the annual FCM convention as well. So needless to say, I enjoy being a "Wesleyan".

I am doing three programs at a "Celebration of Freedom" festival at the Kindleberger Park bandshell in Parchment, Michigan, next Friday night and and all day Saturday. The organizers have billed me as a "Christian Illusionist" (even though I do not do illusions). The folks putting on this large outdoor event with Bible puppets, live Christian music, speakers, etc. -with several local sponsoring churches- apparently preferred the term "illusionist" on the posters/fliers(they did not ask me)over the words "Gospel magician" (which is on my materials). So it's all great by me, wonderful to have the opportunity to serve for sure

I don't think we should be dismissive of sincerely expressed concerns.. There are areas of magic where the distinction between magic tricks and something not so good is a bit hazy, and lay some people may be aware of this, so I think it's important to emphasize that that gospel magic is about the message, not the medium (so to speak).

I will sometimes say that as Jesus taught using parables, I use the art of magic & illusion to teach biblical truths. I found that this approach has served me well.

Mark

Perfect approach, Mark.

I think there might be a big difference biblically speaking, between Jesus' parables, and perfoming magic tricks.

I have no personal issue with using entertainment to convey a message, even a biblical message. When Jesus used parables I believe it was to explain a spiritual matter that otherwise could not be understood in human terms. Jesus would use parables that the people could relate to and understand. Take the parable of the Sower. It wasn't intended to be entertaining. Jesus’ explanation of the parable of the Sower highlights four different responses to the gospel.

I don't see any similiarities between the magic tricks as object lessons and Jesus' parables, which is why I never use that excuse. It's almost like saying, "Jesus did it, so can I" which I think can be counter productive when trying to leviate the concerns of some Christians.

I don't perform Gospel magic as much as I used to because I discovered I can reach more unsaved people doing my regular show and giving my testimony afterwards. When performing in churches, I found I was there for more of the entertainment aspect, and not the evangelical aspect of reaching the unsaved with the Gospel message. I felt I was preaching a message they already knew, and already understood by conventional means.