I still thing that Trouble would be effective if performed as designed. There are some "disconnects" with the illusion but, unless the audience sees it from above, performed incorrectly, as in the above video, I think they should enjoy it.

That's right

That looks like an excellent deceptive Grand Illusion, I do not see anything that would give anything away to a lay audience, including the legs. Looks amazing and out of the norm from all the square boxes.

That looked like a pile of crap. Summers mangled Jim's design. Jim didn't design it or publish it like that. It was never meant to have a stepped base or be that tall or large.

Ryan doesn't do it justice either. Why hand a chunk to a kid? Nothing in that video was done correctly, might as well call it a knock off. The idea was fom the book... Nothing else.

Rudy, I assume you still haven't seen Trouble or Heartless live?

J

I have never seen it live. I have seen this video and a video of female Japanese Magicians performing it and both left a lot to be desired. It read much better in the book.

The design was different as was the presentation in the book too Rudy.

I think in the case of Trouble this is really just a poor build/design job and a lack of presentation to fit. Jim gave a great design and presentation in the book.

Heartless is strictly ignorance. Nobody has actually seen it live on this forum except Craig, yet we are quick to make assumptions about method, etc. There is nothing that implies the size of the prop (which is tiny) and so we have silly accusations and assumptions. Come on guys, you're smarter than that.

J

Jay,

Have you seen trouble live?

Tim

I have not Tim, I am sorry to say.

But I have seen the design in the book as well as the presentation and I have mocked it up to satisfy my own curiosity regarding the scale of the prop live and in person.

It is a tiny little thing, especially with the concealment from the book.

J

Thanks for the reply Jay,

Here is the scoop on all of this Trouble biz. I was in Dan Summers shop when he was building them. The box is the same size as specified in the book. The table/base is different but the box is spot on.

Dan really fell in love with the illusion and in fact pays Jim a royalty for each he sells. He doesn't have to do that as he could build as many as possible but that's just Dan. Calling anything Dan builds a knockoff is sort of insulting. Dan calls it a " performance piece" and understands it takes some presentation to tell the story and sell it to an audience.

The book does paint a lovely picture of presentation but that's easier written than done. Several have been sold ( Craig Dickens has built at least one as well ) yet you never see video of it. Its because once the person gets it they are stuck as to presentation. Ryan conceived the choreography for Dans Foul Play so Dan asked Ryan to do the same with Trouble. If you read the presentation through you will see Ryan kept pretty close to the script. He omitted some lines that if memory serves correct basically come close to insulting the audience. Ryan didn't feel comfortable saying them.

Ok.... so the issue with trouble. I don't see the problem being in the base but rather that you see a big wide surface when the box is open. Looks like a bryces screen. That part bothers me and when I perform mine.... yes I have one. I will have remedied that somewhat I hope.

Regards why Ryan handed the box to the person on stage. Jim didn't like that part I understand. However..... Ryan did it because when you stack that part up on top it makes the box look even bigger. ( again... the box IS the proper size as specified in the book ) I agreed with that move. Not sure how I will handle than with my own.

As to the rest of Ryans performance. Ryan is a big boy and can take any negative comments about his choice of performance. He has never had a job other than magician and has earned a decent living at it. He is a full time performer and always has been. He has logged more hrs on stage and in front of more people than just about anybody reading this thread right now. He was asked to perform this illusion because everyone wanted a video and he did. Based on what I know of the presentation I like it. Seeing it helped me understand a bit more about how I will present it. It really is a difficult thing to present. He had a few of his own touches he'd like to add to the prop to address the problem I mentioned but the prop was sold and had to be left unmodified so the new owner could have it as it.

I will await video from all the armchair illusionists who wish to build their own and perform it. I suspect those who try will face the same challenges Ryan did.

BTW.... you can see a pic of the prop built right from the plans here... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2......&theater

I am not a fan of the solid thick walled legs. BUT ... you'll have to wait a bit to see who I handle that one.

BTW...... on the original topic of this thread.... I like the Heartless prop. Can't wait to see video of it.

Best,

Tim

Tim
The link doesn't work, could you fix it please?
Thanks!

I just checked it. It does work. I guess you have have a Facebook account or be Facebook friends with Craig to see it.

Best,

Tim

Ok, I've got a FB account but I'm not "FB friend" with Craig, suppose that's why I can't see the link.
Thanks anyway.

To get back to the OP...I have seen Alex Ramon perform this illusion twice in two different venues. In the first, the front row of spectators was about 10 feet from the prop and it killed. This was primarily a lay audience in a Magic dinner theatre in Northern California. The second time he performed with Jim Steinmeyer in the Palace of Mystery at the Magic Castle and again it was well received. The prop is quite tight fitting to the assistant and very deceptive in method and performance. Don't judge this illusion until you have seen it performed live, preferably by Mr. Ramon.

Well it seems the link works even for those who don't have a Facebook account. Here is Trouble built exactly like in Jims plans. Craig did a fantastic job of building it. I am not a fan of the solid, bumped out legs and I guess Dan wasn't either and thus why he made his own changes. I don't want to give away the changes I will make as that's a secret for now.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2......&theater

Best,

Tim

Tim
I still can't see this link (nor logged in, nor logged out at my FB account). I would really like seeing trouble built according to the specs at "Technique and understanding", because I found it very interesting since I read the book for the first time. Could you please upload the photo to other site?
Thank you very much!!

I finally got the picture of "Trouble" built by Craig Dickens. Thanks to a member of the Café who sent me in private!!

Craig himself kindly has offered also to send me the photo and has authorized me to post it openly here.

Once I've seen this picture I must say I’m impressed. Craig did a great building job!! I like the original table more than the Summers' one. For my eye the original design as seen at Technique and Understanding is more deceptive. I find reducing the total surface of the table makes the upper section a little more deceptive.

I already knew Craig was a great builder, and this “trouble” proves it again.

Congratulations!

Click here to view attached image.