|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5 [Next] | ||||||||||
Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-03-28 17:34, AMcD wrote: Oh I believe you. I'm not "calling you out" or anything like that. I doubt you could be fooled by a Zarrow shuffle unless someone did it while you weren't looking. Which is really the best time to do anything. I'm just saying, as far as a challenge, I'm pretty sure your $250 is safe. Might as well make it $2500 or $25,000. |
|||||||||
AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Oh, I've already been fooled several times . I've even been cheated many times.
But it wasn't because Zarrows, lol. |
|||||||||
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Get over yourselves and accept the fact the fraternity have been getting the dough with what is esentially a Zarrow for decades. The Dowser is simply stating the facts of the matter, which blows the theory that the Zarrow is some sort of joke sky high. Why don't you boys just say thank you to him for enlightening you all. Don't you know that its good to find out that you have been wrong? Put your ego's aside and think positive. Now do you know any bribable dealers or not?
:angrypirate:
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
|||||||||
M for Magic Special user 673 Posts |
Tommy I can't tell if you're joking or not.
You've said even more oulandish things with a straight face so it's hard to tell. |
|||||||||
Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
It never ceases to amaze me that amount of emotion the words Zarrow Shuffle generate. Some love it, some hate it and others are on the fence. The mere mention of the word “Zarrow” causes some to wet their pants, muse in ecstasy or make statements that would be hard to justify.
Conspiracy theorists probably believe Zarrow came up with his variation of a breakout shuffle out of spite to drive other magicians crazy and give another tool to Vernon to screw with people heads. That is one possibility. Others may believe Zarrow came up with the shuffle because the Maltese Falcon turned out to lead instead of gold and Private Eye Sam Spade needed something else to give us, “The stuff that dreams are made of.” It’s a false shuffle guys. That’s all it is. There are other false shuffles, some better in my opinion. So what? When the Zarrow and/or Zarrow type shuffles were used in gaming situations and a great deal of money was made, it was not because of the Zarrow. It was because of the play and because some type of false shuffle was needed. There are other alternatives and anyone that knows anything about hustling would know this without further explanation. Those that say the Zarrow Shuffle, in and of itself, caused a tremendous amount of money to be made (millions of dollars) in casino plays, and directly or indirectly imply the plays would not work without the Zarrow Shuffle (in other words nothing else would work as well or better in its stead), in my opinion would find it virtually impossible to rationally substantiate that position. To say the Zarrow MADE millions is like saying playing cards MADE millions. The object in question does not make the money in either case. That doesn’t mean the Zarrow or Sky type shuffles have not been used effectively in casino plays for big money. They both have. However, is that because the Zarrow is so exquisitely deceptive that it was used? I think not. They reason for the Zarrow (and Sky) Shuffle being used in some casino plays is twofold: First because just about any dealer can be taught how to do the shuffle in record time under the conditions it was utilized in compared to more complex and difficult to master shuffles, and secondly, because at that time the angle the sky viewed it from CONCEALED the weaknesses of both type shuffles. It was not because these shuffles were incredibly deceptive in and of themselves. If the camera were situated across the table instead of from above, after surveillance finished their uncontrolled laughter, the crews would have been arrested. But as I said, it is a highly charged emotional subject, this is a BB and anyone can join right off the street and say anything and often does. Finally, if the shuffle in its basic form is so good, why do we have a virtual army of poor to middling Zarrow Shuffle enthusiasts mutilating the move on a daily basis and mostly fooling themselves in the process? Finally it can be done deceptively but not the way Zarrow basically described it. Finger position and cover are one of the keys. Gary Planks’ method is good and a step in the right direction. His grip is one used years ago for a fairly good hustler’s breakout shuffle. It is not the only way to make a Zarrow concept shuffle very deceptive, but having been published it is available to more serious students. I did a review of this somewhere on this BB, but don’t have time to find it now. Maybe a search will show it up. |
|||||||||
M for Magic Special user 673 Posts |
Well put!
|
|||||||||
The Dowser Special user Canada 763 Posts |
@ M for Magic:
You are in no position to tell me about class. You and Amcd both made authoritative, definitive statements about the use of the shuffle in a baccarat scam you know nothing about... which I happen to be intimately acquainted with. I am not making assumptions or speculating and I don't need to talk to members of the team, although I have worked with some of them for more then a decade and I broke into the business with others. @Amcd: You are a drama queen and you have mistaken your armchair for a throne. Stop crying every time someone "dares" to challenge your "authority". You don't hesitate to attack anything I post because I am not one of your "fans". Then you always accuse your victims of being the aggressors. Don't answer me if you like... or just stick to the facts instead of always trying to make it personal. To any reasonable people still interested in the debate about the Zarrow being used in the casino to take millions: It might interest you to know that one of the biggest takes in recent casino history (prior to the Tran organization) happened at the casino where I broke in. Everyone involved got off. Why? Because the shuffle was too deceptive to prove it was done purposefully. "It was just a sloppy procedure on the dealers part". This aspect can not apply to a strip out, push through, sky shuffle, or erdnase style ("shank shuffle") |
|||||||||
iamslow Inner circle Proffessional Slacker 2001 Posts |
Arthur, not a bad zarrow, but I think you need to eliminate that double pump when putting the packets together... looks fishy..aside from that, good job..
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
|
|||||||||
M for Magic Special user 673 Posts |
"I am not making assumptions or speculating and I don't need to talk to members of the team, although I have worked with some of them for more then a decade and I broke into the business with others"
I call fairytale. |
|||||||||
iamslow Inner circle Proffessional Slacker 2001 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-03-25 16:15, tommy wrote: did you mean a little "less" fake resistance?
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
|
|||||||||
Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
Plants.
|
|||||||||
The Dowser Special user Canada 763 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-03-29 07:53, M for Magic wrote: why? ... and for who's benefit? Or is it only natural for you to assume that other peoples level of integrity matches your own? |
|||||||||
M for Magic Special user 673 Posts |
Well Dowser.
Simple. If this statement of yours was true: "although I have worked with some of them for more then a decade and I broke into the business with others." You have to a pretty simple sort to post that in an open public forum. |
|||||||||
Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Maybe this might be helpful. I think Dowser, M for Magic and AMcD are all basically arguing different things and coming from different perspectives, i.e., deceptiveness as opposed to getting the money. They are not necessarily one and the same.
1. The Zarro Shuffle HAS been used in casino plays to take off very big scores under the right conditions and when the play is properly orchestrated. That does not make it a great shuffle in and of itself but it does make it an EFFECTIVE shuffle in the right situations and that is all that matters. Many techniques that are used to cheat casinos successfully, when viewed closely by discriminating eyes on video from disadvantageous angles would not look very good, but they still get the money and work under the angles and within the complete framework they are employed in. 2. The Zarro Shuffle is not particularly deceptive as performed by most. In some cases it is almost laughable. However, it CAN be done very deceptively by some, usually with their own twist to the shuffle technique. Additionally there are some very clever and deceptive applications of the Zarro type PRINCIPLE when used as part of different riffle shuffle sequential techniques of stacking, partial controls, block transfers, locating, slug control and so forth. I only use the term “Zarro” in this instance to give a “magician term” point of reference but these techniques go well beyond anything Zarro ever described or possibly even though of. However, I hesitate to use the term “Zarro” in these instances and more detailed discussion of such concepts are completely inappropriate here. 3. A halfway decent Zarro, which may not look very good when viewed by knowing eyes, can still be deceptive enough to get the money in casinos and in private games. Very importantly, it is not so much what you do or even in some case how you do it, but rather when you do it, against who, under what conditions, with whatever timing, shade and so forth is necessary for that particular situation. Ideally, one wants the use the best techniques possible at all times applied in the most competent way but that is not always possible. I have seen some methods that, in my younger days, I would shake my head at and say would never work, only to have someone who knew a lot less that I go out and keep getting the money with it like gangbusters. I have since learned better. So I think you guys all have good arguments depending upon how you look at the situation. I am not taking sides here. I just saying it really all depends… Perhaps this was helpful in some way. |
|||||||||
AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Cag,
I really appreciate your words. But the thing is that I've never seen a convincing Zarrow so far. I'm not talking about taking the money here! More often than not, you don't need to be deceptive to get the money, you just have to play with ignorant people! I could show you moves and procedures I've used in the past that will make many of you laugh. Yet, it worked for me. The effectiveness of a sleight can be measured with the money it gets, sure. But it's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about deceptiveness. I don't give a *** whether the Zarrow made millions or not, I'm just saying that I have seen very few "convincing" Zarrow. If my memory is OK, I think Robert Celestino demonstrates one in its Yonkers Joe add-on. The kind off "quick" shuffle we meet sometimes in amateur games. But despite it's an interesting one, it wouldn't fly at all with serious players. I just want to watch a very good one. |
|||||||||
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Quote:
Thank you most kindly Sir, for that most excellent lesson. That's how the system works. The pattern is very old, totally immoral but fascinating when we look into it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
|||||||||
tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
*keeps time as magicians scramble to establish credibility*
A. Conjurer |
|||||||||
tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
Of course, I only browse this topic because you pick up real life gambling tips here. On an open forum.
To Zarrow or not to Zarrow? Depends entirely on who is watching and from where. |
|||||||||
M for Magic Special user 673 Posts |
Well put Cag and AMcD.
I'm happy to leave it at that. |
|||||||||
Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-03-29 18:02, AMcD wrote: I have no problem with that observation. Maybe you never will... Quote:
I don't give a *** whether the Zarrow made millions or not I can appreciate that. You are an honest guy. But a million bucks. Hmmm. I might have to think twice about that one. |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » My approach of Zarrow Shuffle (1 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |