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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Got another abreaction... (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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cameronb
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Dannydoyle,

I apologize if I've offended you. I thought that it was respectable of you to ask people to back up their claims with scientific peer-reviewed articles, and I thought you might agree with my use of lengthy explanations because that is often what is required when one is speaking about scientific concepts that have been developed over the course of many decades of research.

And again you illustrate a good point: people often accept things on authority because they see big words and long, drawn out sentences. Trusting things on someone else's authority is a logical fallacy, to be sure.

Speaking with concision has always been a struggle for me. It makes script-writing an up-hill battle.
"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum."

~Lucretius~
Mindpro
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The way I see it... A.) this has nothing to do with abreactions which is the topic of this thread, and B.) it has nothing to do with stage or performance hypnosis, which is the purpose of this forum.
quicknotist
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Thank you Mindpro.
It really needed to be said.

Quote:
On 2013-01-22 23:37, Mindpro wrote:
The way I see it... A.) this has nothing to do with abreactions which is the topic of this thread, and B.) it has nothing to do with stage or performance hypnosis, which is the purpose of this forum.
hypnokid
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And on top of that, the hard evidence is actually against the use of antidepressants.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irving-kir......205.html

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
Pomdini
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It would be a poor hypnotherapist that did not ferociously wield the magic wand of placebo and expectancy.

Does anybody know of a good hypnotherapy forum? I am sure it could not possibly be as entertaining as The Magic Café!

Cameronb, I agree that one session is highly unlikely to generate lasting change, although I wouldn't discount the possibility. It is because of a good understanding of LTP that certain types of therapy can be so effective so very quickly (8 to 12 sessions is pretty quick I feel) It would be a shame to feel that if someone only attended one session that you had not helped them in any way. Again complexity theory would suggest that any small decision can create a butterfly effect leading to powerful and lasting change, even if the decision is "That therapist was rubbish I'll go and do X instead"!

Thank you for the enjoyable posts. Here is one on correlation does not imply causation you might like. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spag......_warming
“If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place.”-Milton Erickson
cameronb
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Quote:
On 2013-01-23 06:24, hypnokid wrote:
And on top of that, the hard evidence is actually against the use of antidepressants.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irving-kir......205.html

HK


You may want to consider that this article is not scientific in nature, lacks sources, and the author's interpretation of findings is skewed in the extreme.
Take a look at the comments from patient and psychiatrist alike. They are informative as well. At the very least, there is debate.

As I've said before, I agree that the first option should NOT be antidepressants. I've also not said that I believe antidepressants or therapy to be the better option. The purpose of my involvement was to bring some valuable information to those who made comments without understanding a shred of the subject matter (e.g. "psychiatry and psychology are pseudoscience" and "psychiatry is a scam").

Pomdini, I am a firm believer in the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It, and the Volumes of Wisdom from the Invisible Pink Unicorn, have been my guiding lights in times of darkness. The article was fantastic
"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum."

~Lucretius~
dmkraig
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CameronB wrote: "What I have said is that a single, one-on-one therapy session of any kind simply cannot biologically alter the efficacy of serotonin production in the human brain."

And I have no doubt that for you that is true. Of course, you HAVE changed the focus from chronic, biologically-caused depression to serotonin production, but that's okay. You also dodged my question as to why you personally choose to believe it. Have you personally done any controlled testing that shows this is true (ignoring, for a moment, the influence of the observer as has been increasingly noticed in both psychological and non-psychological experimentation).

Could it be that this is simply what your teachers are telling you so you must believe it? What would you believe if nobody had ever bothered to do any testing on this? Have you ever worked with, say, twenty professional hypnotherapists who specialize in dealing with chronic, physiologically-caused depression? What would you say if you saw results that the depression was significantly improved after one session? Would you tell them, "You can't be better because my teachers and books said so?"

"And please don't take my words the wrong way. I am studying psychology in the hope of one day having a private therapy practice. In no way am I trying to speak ill of hypnotic technique or its efficacy."

I don't think I'm taking it the wrong way. But respectfully, your denial is exactly speaking ill of hypnotic technique and its efficacy. But that's okay. Hypnotherapy is NOT psychotherapy, and as someone who is stating that he wants to go into private therapy practice, it's important that you defend your approach against the approaches of others. I see the same sort of thing among many psychologists, furious that they don't get as good results as quickly as hypnotists. I also see some hypnotherapists denouncing all of the good work that psychologists and psychiatrists do because they often don't deal with the types of cases that those in the psychology field do.

So, let me repeat my question to you: how many professional hypnotherapists have you worked with in order to test your theory that they couldn't possibly "alter the efficacy of serotonin production in the human brain?" 20? 10? 1? Or are you just repeating the dogma that you learned in school?

Years ago, it was believed that there were many autonomic nervous system responses that could not be conscious controlled. All of the scientists dogmatically said so. And then biofeedback was developed and all of that changed. It was said that doctors could not perform surgery on a living heart. Now it is done all the time. Many scientists said that rockets wouldn't work in space because there was nothing for the engine to push against. Other scientist said we couldn't communicate with other people if we went faster than the speed of sound.

Science is never fact written in stone. It is always theory. In the scientific world that doesn't mean, as some wack-jobs say, a guess. Rather, it is the best explanation for all phenomena. When a better explanation comes along, that becomes the science of the day.

Right now, you deeply believe in a particular theory. You're holding it so tightly that it is a dogma, and you have to defend it as tightly as any fundamentalist religionist supporting their interpretation of their religion. That's okay. As I wrote, you're just defending your job choice. Good on ya! But I think you may be able to go much farther in life when you understand that no scientific theory is eternal. Much of Freud has been abandoned. Even Einstein was judged wrong with his "cosmological constant."

Dogmas are always limiting.
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2013-01-23 12:15, Pomdini wrote:
It would be a poor hypnotherapist that did not ferociously wield the magic wand of placebo and expectancy.

Does anybody know of a good hypnotherapy forum? I am sure it could not possibly be as entertaining as The Magic Café!


Oh, I dunno. I've seen stuff on them that is wackier than just about anything here. I've seen dogma, racism, sexism, and various forms of hate masquerading as "psychological truisms" and people yelling at each other (well, metaphorically speaking) with some well-crafted insults.
Pomdini
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Sounds great! Where is it?
“If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place.”-Milton Erickson
Dannydoyle
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Yea first year students find a TRUTH so quickly and can't wait to tell the world how dumb they are. Then in about the 3rd year the smart ones figure out they are not quite as informed as they think. After that it becomes possible to talk to them.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
hypnokid
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Quote:
On 2013-01-23 19:18, cameronb wrote:
You may want to consider that this article is not scientific in nature, lacks sources, and the author's interpretation of findings is skewed in the extreme.


Okay, try these:
psychrights.org/Research/Digest/CriticalThinkRxCites/KirschandSapirstein1998.pdf
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info.......0050045

I think you'll like the second one - 10 years after the first.

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
Pomdini
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Thanks HK that was very interesting indeed.
“If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place.”-Milton Erickson
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