The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Got another abreaction... (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
hypnokid
View Profile
Regular user
172 Posts

Profile of hypnokid
Quote:
On 2012-04-02 01:34, bobser wrote:
Now then, on top of that, if I understand you properly, you're saying that you think I/we are either lying or wrong, and that this 'doctor' is correct in that they do NOT exist.


I think he is saying you've caused the abreactions through indirectly suggesting them through your own expectation that they could happen.

Quote:
I have to say to all reading this that you really must NOT put too much faith in doctors. It's only a Phd for heavens sake.


It's not only a PhD. Look at the people being quoted and look at who was asking them to state their opinion. It's not the same as asking a random like yourself.

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
hypnokid
View Profile
Regular user
172 Posts

Profile of hypnokid
While I'm rolling...

Quote:
On 2012-04-01 18:33, dmkraig wrote:
And for those who, rather than live in a fantasy world, want to actually discover the facts about what an abreaction is


Dictionary definitions are not facts.

Quote:
Here is a paper on the subject, including a list of other associated studies:
http://www.mendeley.com/research/hypnoti......[/quote]

I think that paper only had 2 subjects in the test group which would make it a case study and therefore not something you would generalise from.

Quote:
And finally, since you've now had your fill of quoting sources, here is a rather long discussion of it:

http://www.whatsonmybrain.com/handle-hyp......[/quote]

Combat authority with a blogger. Makes sense. How very net 2.0 of you.

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
visionquest
View Profile
Regular user
140 Posts

Profile of visionquest
I must say that I feel very queasy that Bobser and his colleagues are getting so many of these "abreactions" when stage hypnotists get them so rarely and in most cases never at all. It is enough to put me off hypnotherapists for life. I am definitely beginning to think the practicioners are CAUSING these unfortunate effects and in a few cases for "therapy" reasons deliberately from some of the stuff I have been reading on the internet. And some hypnotherapists have the nerve to criticise stage hypnotists for safety reasons!

From a stage point of view it seems only a matter of common sense that you don't do experiments on stage where you may suggest unpleasant things. If someone is very suggestible you don't want to upset them unduly whether you call it an "abreaction" or not. You should avoid stunts where you take people back into their childhood. With certain skits you should put some qualifiers into your script just in case of potentially unexpected reactions. For example when I take people on a plane trip I always ask before the flight takes off if anyone is afraid of flying and if so they should raise their hand. If someone does so I assure them it will be a safe flight. And it always is. I NEVER make suggestions of the plane in danger of crashing, for example, because that is just asking for trouble. You should avoid suggestions of being attacked by bees or any imaginary danger or extreme unpleasantness of any kind. Any hypnotist that does this kind of thing is simply asking for trouble.

I don't call this kind of thing "cautionary techniques to avoid abreactions". I just call it using bloody common sense. God alone knows what hypnotherapists and a few stage hypnotists are saying to subjects to produce these unpleasant effects.

I am quite sure that I will go to the end of my days performing as a stage hypnotist and never get a single "abreaction" and I expect certain other people on this thread will do likewise. I really think there is some truth in the statement that if you expect abreactions you will get them. Any good psychic reader knows the validity of self fulfilling prophecies coming true.
TonyB2009
View Profile
Inner circle
5006 Posts

Profile of TonyB2009
Bob, I don't dispute that you have seen dozens of abreactions. I am sure they can be triggered by therapy and are part of the healing process. The more relevant question is, have you ever seen one during a stage show? I say that if you do not expect them during a stage show you are not giving off any subtle suggestions that they might happen, so they don't happen. They are not a real issue for us stage workers.

I am also with Danny on one point; they are not real repressed memories. That is just the form the take, but the actual memories people dredge up cannot be relied upon in any way. Though I am not a therapist I have plenty of relevant experience in this area, and that has been my experience. They remember things that never happened.
bobser
View Profile
Inner circle
4176 Posts

Profile of bobser
Very good post Tony, thank Christ you're here.
Hypnokiddy and visionquest evidently do NOT understand what I'm saying . Indeed Hipnokiddy seems to have a hotflush everytime he even thinks about Danny, I don't mean that in a bad way, it's just that it's made hime totally and completely THICK. So I'm just going to allow him to get himself off.

Visionquest you don't seem as thick, Ijustr feel that perhaps your experiencees will shapeyou more in the coming years. I don't mean that in a bad way or to be rude. Tony ir correct in that AR's do NOT happen as much in stage shows as some of the stories claim. I have NEVER seen one in a stage show BUT I know they exist because people who I greatly respect have informed me that that is the case. 'Occam's Razor suggest strongly thatI take on board that information and shut-up.

I'm saying that AR's are real and indeed in the hands of a highjly trained psycho/hypno alalyst can be sought and found. It's simply a fact.

In closing, for many years noe I have found myself surrounded by doctors who continue to tellme that the stuff I do simply CNNOT work. That's because their heads are up their own arses and stuck in the principle that they HAVE TO read text. Text of other people 'who got in wrong'.

I feel there might be hope for you visionquest, but alas, hippnokiddy is a lost cause. Unless of course my earlier thoughts are correct and he's simply a 14 year old with a crush. And once again I don't mean that in a bad way.

Anyway, I'm not going to get involved in this argument.

Have a nice day, all of you.

ps: I retract my earlier statement suggested that Danny was considering that anyone was lying. Sorry.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20035 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I like the way you don't get into arguements. You simply come in and attack people like hypnokid and call names and pretend to be above it all.

Bobser you remind me of the people who have seen Bigfoot, UFOs and the Loch Ness Monster. Oh I have SEEN IT SO IT HAPPENED. Never mind the scientific validity of the fact that the fake science or crap that is being peddled is absolute nonsense. I HAVE SEEN IT HUNDREDS OF TIMES, so therefore it exists.

Well as I said no doctorates on anyones parts, (After all it is just a PHD huh?) and I am not going to argue, just attack like a petulant child with absolutely no point.

WAy to go. Makes you look all grown up.

How about you post some facts other than what you and people you know have "seen" and quite frankley don't seem to understand? As I said back them up. But alas I ask in vain as you can't and won't. You will keep attacking attacking and acting all smug and superior with no knowledge at all.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
hypnokid
View Profile
Regular user
172 Posts

Profile of hypnokid
Bobser, you make me laugh. Smile Would you rather I had a crush on you?

You mention hypnoanalysis - wasn't that the therapy that Beck tried to find evidence for before abandoning it and creating CBT which is supported by evidence? And isn't CBT the modern form of psychotherapy and doesn't featue abreactions at all? Isn't psychoanalysis all Freudian stuff about your mum? Speaking of your mum...

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20035 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I like the way he wants to pretend he is cutting edge and is using 100 year old discredited science to do it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Owen Mc Ginty
View Profile
Special user
not a stupid user, a special user.
533 Posts

Profile of Owen Mc Ginty
Presuming that abreactions do exist, it stands to reason that you´d get a much higher percentage of them in a therapy room situation than you would in stage hypnosis. Does it not?

I presume this because I imagine that people going to a hypnotherapist normally have some sort of problem, and in many cases have exhausted all the other options before going to the hypnotherapist.
Whereas people getting up on stage at a show are normally game for a laugh and are normally (I imagine) mentally predisposed to having a good time. Aren´t they?

Bob - when are you buying me that beer? Smile
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
hypnokid
View Profile
Regular user
172 Posts

Profile of hypnokid
Quote:
On 2012-04-03 01:24, bobser wrote:
Hypnokiddy I'm not going to talk to you anymore as you're just a kid and don't know any better.


What better reason is there for not talking to someone? Keep on pretending you know what you're talking about.

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
visionquest
View Profile
Regular user
140 Posts

Profile of visionquest
Hypnokid may be a kid but if this is the case he seems to be a smart kid. As for the statement by Bobser that stage hypnosis is easy and can be learned in a morning I am afraid that does put a dent in his credibility. I shall assume he made that statement impulsively and give him an opportunity to retract it.
TonyB2009
View Profile
Inner circle
5006 Posts

Profile of TonyB2009
Visionquest, I spent an hour with the opening chapters of Ormond McGill's encyclopedia, then did my first show. I waited more than a decade to do any more training than that. Why crowd the head with facts?
visionquest
View Profile
Regular user
140 Posts

Profile of visionquest
In that case I must be a slow learner. I studied hypnosis thoroughly before doing my first show. And then it took me hours of planning and rehearsing said show. Since a show lasts around an hour at least it does take quite a bit of effort rehearsing what to say. I suppose I could have winged it but that would be a recipe for disaster. And after I finally got around to doing my first show it was only the beginning. I had to do show after show after show after show to get the *** thing to work properly. And then when it did work I had to do show after show after show to make it entertaining and smooth and polished. I must have done about 30 or so shows before I could get it to work smoothly and consistently.

It takes me more than a morning to learn even the simplest card trick. First I have to learn the mechanics of the trick. If the trick is easy so much the better. If the trick is more difficult it can take me several weeks to master it. Then I have to work out the presentation, the patter and the psychology plus the best way to use the effect. It takes a hell of a lot more than one morning. And this is just one close up trick let alone a full scale one hour hypnosis show which is really a theatrical production of a kind.

Nope. One morning isn't enough for me although it may well be for you and Bobser. I do believe you can dive straight in and do a show since there is no substitute for experience. I don't necessarily believe you have to study the theory of why hypnosis works although I chose to go that route. But you still have to put a lot of work in on your stagecraft, presentation and showmanship. And you have to learn how to handle volunteers and various unexpected situations. I think that takes a hell of a lot more than one morning.

Oddly enough hypnotherapy is far easier. I have done a fair bit of this and here you CAN learn the basics in one morning! I can unhesitatingly say that hypnotherapy is FAR easier to do (providing it is done in a street wise manner) than presenting a full blown stage show is.
RSD
View Profile
Special user
Toronto, Ontario
533 Posts

Profile of RSD
You can become a hypnotist in a single morning, but with all the time in the world, may never become an entertainer.
TonyB2009
View Profile
Inner circle
5006 Posts

Profile of TonyB2009
I began as a public speaker. By the time I did my first hypnosis show I had been a British finalist a number of times in public speaking contests, had acted in a few plays, and done hundreds of kids shows. So my presentational skills and showmanship were up to the job. Had they not been, I would have failed.

Stage hypnosis can be learnt rapidly if you have the right tools to begin with. I trained a colleague in an hour, and he handled a show for me perfectly last year. But I began by picking the right colleague.
visionquest
View Profile
Regular user
140 Posts

Profile of visionquest
You can learn the mechanics of driving a car in a morning but that doesn't mean I would want you out on the road.
TonyB2009
View Profile
Inner circle
5006 Posts

Profile of TonyB2009
Wrong again - my father explained the controls of my first car one morning, and we drove five or six miles. That afternoon I drove to Fermanagh - a round trip of 460 miles. By the end of that trip I knew how to drive. I am a great believer in going in at the deep end.
visionquest
View Profile
Regular user
140 Posts

Profile of visionquest
Tony. You live in an eccentric country where that sort of thing is considered perfectly normal. At one time I remember 20% of Irish drivers were uninsured. For all I know that may even be the case nowadays. I also remember that a ventriloquist's dummy once managed to get a driving licence, I kid you not. I also remember that a huge backlog of people waiting to take driving tests were so bad that a law was passed granting drivers a licence whether they had taken a driving test or not providing they had been waiting two years. It was considered that if they had been on the road for two years they would know how to drive by now. Perhaps this is a clue as to why every single car in Dublin has a bump in it. I have seen with my own eyes a drunken driver being stopped by the police and the officer asking, "have you been drinking?" The answer was "Yes, officer. I am sorry" The reply was, "Ah well, go on with you and don't be doing it again" and thus the driver went on his way no doubt to kill a fellow citizen or two.

I am sorry. Your argument does not convince me. I am afraid your country has rather a lax approach to driving rules and regulations that I don't think it tranfers to discussions about hypnosis too well. By all means jump in at the deep end and I can see some merit to it. I prefer to do things with a certain thoroughness and I believe I get better results that way personally.
TonyB2009
View Profile
Inner circle
5006 Posts

Profile of TonyB2009
In Ireland we have a healthy regard for the law; we disdain it. I missed out on the free licences by a year or two, but it was always possible to get a drivers licence by leaving a fifty on the dashboard at the start of the test, and not noticing its disappearance at the end of the test!
visionquest
View Profile
Regular user
140 Posts

Profile of visionquest
Yes indeed. Law enforcement in Ireland tends to consist of vague guidelines rather than anything that anyone takes too seriously.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Got another abreaction... (1 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL