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MattSD New user 14 Posts |
Hey all,
I'm new to the forum and to magic. I was curious what your opinions are of all the youtube videos of magic tricks and their reveals that are circling the web for all to see. Do you think it has a net negative effect that taking the magic away from the magician, or a net positive effect by exposing more people to the world of magic? I'm conflicted and would love to hear the opinions of experienced magicians. |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
You can expose more people, etc., without revealing the methods.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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FrenchDrop Inner circle I can name that tune in 1647 Posts |
Yes. "Exposing more people to the world of magic" is just an excuse some classless individuals use for giving away magic secrets online. If they really wanted to get people interested in the world of magic, they'd post performance clips of great magicians.
I don't think it's an enormous problem, though. I don't believe a lot of laymen are scouring the Internet or poring over YouTube looking for magic secrets. Most are content to be entertained by magic and save the Internet for porn and talking cats.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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Pecan_Creek Veteran user The Nation of TEXAS! 323 Posts |
What?
There's porn on the internet? |
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HCM New user 58 Posts |
Magic shops "give away" secrets all day long, but you have to:
1) find a magic shop 2) actually go to the magic shop 3) be determined enough to get the secret that you open up your wallet and pay for it It seems that we are more bothered that people who would otherwise not make the effort to go to a magic shop, are learning these secrets. When the first masked magician special came out, a lot of people thought it would destroy magic. We can see now that very little damage was even done. If a magician is revealing a secret to the public, I feel he is only diminishing himself and not the art of magic. One person cannot define the whole art. I politely recommend that revealers stop revealing; but if they don't, I continue along my path and ignore them. I do understand that youtube has become a new medium for magicians to share and learn, but there are ways to make videos private. For those who want to share methods and ask for critique on youtube, I think it would be a great idea to have a community to share with. The Café is a great place to find peers to share with. Just drop a PM to your fellow magicians here with private links to your videos and your good to go! If you're just blatantly revealing magic, I have little to say to you except, please stop. |
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MattSD New user 14 Posts |
I agree that there isn't much of a negative effect as layman are doing things other than looking up magic tricks on the internet. However, it is sad to see a young amateur who doesn't have a decent grasp of a trick trying to "teach" the world how cool it is. However, it has been useful for me to see variations off of what I've been taught via private lessons but most of these videos are poorly executed. I'd much rather see clips from professionals than from some kid stumbling over his words and cards!
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
14 year olds have nothing better to do and they think they are smart and cool that they can put up a video of them poorly exposing a magic trick.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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Richard Schneider New user 57 Posts |
I wouldn't call myself an "experienced magician" (particularly in the company of those above), but I agree with most of the expressed sentiments. I believe magic isn't about fooling the audience, but entertaining them. If you are doing your job properly, the audience shouldn't feel a combative need to look up how a trick is done. They should be too busy enjoying themselves to be worrying about how a coin got into a box (aside from the natural wonder "how did that get there?" of the effect). They should like you too much to feel a desire to out you. It's mainly when magicians somehow challenge their audience (perhaps unconsciously) that these feelings start to come out.
Granted, you will get the more analytical minds who do only focus on how a trick is done, and the hecklers who are just mean-spirited. Both these groups might look up a trick online. The first group's curiosity will be satisfied, and perhaps they might even get more interested in magic. After all, many of us first started in magic by wondering about the methods behind effects. The second group will be jerks no matter what, and the fact that they can look up your tricks is only one of your problems. |
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satellite23 Elite user 424 Posts |
I have found generally found two things:
1)As mentioned above, most laymen don't spend time finding out how tricks are done. 2)Usually, the tricks that are exposed happen to be basic card tricks, coin tricks, sponge balls at the most. Finding a method reveal for something a bit more advanced for free takes a LOT more effort and digging around the correct places in order to find. Most magicians absolutely free internet exposure. I myself have a bit more leniency when it comes to that stuff. I just think there is a fine line between exposing a trick for a few people on the internet and giving it out to the entire world. |
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NexusMagicShop Elite user Sunny California 434 Posts |
I can say as a dealer and Creator that YouTube exposure has had a detrimental effect on Magic as a whole on the short and long-term. I have discussed this in great length.
First off with magic the secret is the value of the effect. And when this can be downloaded or viewed for free its considered piracy, which in its essence stealing. The difference is that the YouTube Magician is re-inacting the trick learned. And in many cases showcasing it horribly. Thus, exposing the true value of the trick being the method. And in most cases further de-valuing the trick by performing it improperly. Consistant exposure is only driving the price of magic up or preventing quality illusions, and techniques from being released. And for these reasons and so many more I feel that either are no different then walking into a magic shop and boosting products off the shelves. Any dealer in the business can testify of the impact financially. Which means that yes, magicians are downloading or getting the method for free somewhere. Its a an extremely sad reality... - My Thoughts
Jason of BackroomMagic
www.BackroomMagic.com/| Mobile friendly magic forums and blogs www.twitter.com/Nexusmagicstore |
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FrenchDrop Inner circle I can name that tune in 1647 Posts |
I think that's a different issue, really: Piracy by magicians, aided by the Internet, rather than exposure of secrets to laymen, aided by the 'net. I can see how the former could have a significant effect on the bottom line for magic creators and sellers; the latter, not so much. A layman who learns how a trick is done via a YouTube video was probably never going to buy that trick, so he doesn't represent a lost sale the way a magician who pirates a trick could.
Both phenomena are bad; I wish both would stop...but I think YouTube exposure to laymen is ultimately a minor problem in the grand scheme of things. It seems big to us because we actively seek out magic videos on YouTube and come across the exposure clips in the process -- but I don't think a large number of laymen are searching YouTube to learn magic secrets.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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solrak29 Special user NY Metro 936 Posts |
This is great topic and I am sure it has been discussed before in the forum.
The key thing to remember here is that in learning magic, as mentioned above, you had to physically seek out the shop and/or magician to learn from. Now with the internet, you have the super information highway that information is at your finger tips. If you want to know, it can probably be found on the internet. I honestly think that this has increased the number of the initiated to benefit of certain groups, but maybe not necessarily to magic as a whole. With that said, in general, I don't think lay people look for "how to do" magic videos. But you do have those that do. You also have those that are not looking and randomly run into things. To think that this does not impact things as it once was is like lying to yourself. It does impact things and even magicians; your top good magician; are revealing certain aspects of magic for free. We are living in a fantastic age folks and it depends on each and everyone one of us to ensure our own lively hood, hobby, and/or interest stays alive. Each one of us has a certain level of responsibility to keep our art alive and such tools (i.e. the internet) can do that. At the same time...it can hurt us. I love this art, and I have not seen it severely impact me in anyway...even if a guy I'm performing to knows how CMH is done.
To Find Me On The Pitch, Follow me :On Twitter
Checkout my pseudo blog : The Sidewalk Performers Forum "I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx |
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Yekrats Loyal user Dayton, Indiana 209 Posts |
One thing we can do to combat this is 'poison the well,' by adding the keyword "revealed" to our own non-revealing magic videos.
That way, magic hacks can waste time trying to find out secrets, and not find out anything. They might give up, or at least be delayed and frustrated.
--
Corporate or event magic & mentalism: http://WizardoftheWabash.com |
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-03-28 21:02, NexusMagicShop wrote: Jason is SPOT on! I've had several ideas I was considering, but will NOT release anything public (or private), now. I could see China or India (no offense to folks from those countries, it's not YOUR fault. It happens everywhere.) jumping on it (ala Quantum Bender 2) and stealing it right out from under me! I fully understand why Quantum Bender 2 was pulled. I would do the same... Doug |
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NexusMagicShop Elite user Sunny California 434 Posts |
Solrak29 you make some terrific points, and I agree with most of what you are saying. However, surprisingly, and this is taken directly from Google adwords "How to Do" gets 755,000,000 global searches 151,000,000 local searches. But more specifically related to magic, and this may suprise many. The 1st set of number in each row are Global Monthly the 2nd set of numbers are Local Monthly.
Current stats for more direct Magic related searches: GOOGLE AD-WORDS Global Monthly Local Monthly Searches (US) how to do magic 368000 135000 how to do magic tricks 33100 14800 how to do card tricks 18100 8100 how do you do magic 368000 135000 how to do magic card tricks 4400 1900 how to do illusions 14800 8100 how to do magic trick 27100 12100 And these are only 7 out of 100's of variations of monthly magic related exposure terms. I teach classes on Search Engine Optimization (SEO) I am and Search Engine Optimization Expert. The impact is much greater then most see. I research keywords all the time for my magic store. The most searched terms relating to magic are: (1. How to get the trick for free (2. Lowest cost for an effect
Jason of BackroomMagic
www.BackroomMagic.com/| Mobile friendly magic forums and blogs www.twitter.com/Nexusmagicstore |
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diehards2080 Loyal user Brooklyn, New York 256 Posts |
Revealing of methods is harmful to the magic community IMO. Its a loss of sale for the artist and dealers. Its not the laymen that I have a huge problem looking for these vids its the "wanna be" magicians. Why should a person kid or not buy a book or a dvd if someone is going to expose it and teach it. There goes a loss of a sale to the dealer and a blow to the artist. Even though that person may be horrible at performing the trick the seeker now knows the sequence of moves to achieve the trick. He wouldnt care if he did not do the trick well. He didn't spend any money for it.
The other loss is the the community itself. There are a lot of works out there that are not being released to us because of this. We luck out. |
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Italia16 New user 49 Posts |
I hate seeing people (mostly kids) exposing tricks on YouTube but I think if I was in high school or if my audience was high school age, it would bother me even more.
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nathanernest New user 80 Posts |
Kids are in a competition to get the most views on youtube. They will do anything in order to get them.
They don't buy the effect themselves, their parents buy it for them. You will probably find that the parents don't realise that their kid is exposing the effects online. Actual piracy (i.e. people downloading and selling bootleg DVD's) is something that we can't deal with and never will until big changes are made in the world. For now, we can simply stop making effects available as downloads for $5 and put the effects into books etc. At least this will slow down the exposure. If the "secret" was worth more than $5 then people wouldn't want to reveal it. Its like seeing 10 cents on the street. Do you bend over to pick it up or keep walking. If its worth nothing then you simply don't care.
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Nath |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-03-30 10:50, Yekrats wrote: I like that! You can find out personally, or simply read thru the ages, that revealing a magic trick would be ONE OF THE WORST ways to get more people into magic. NOT revealing a great magic trick is one of the BEST...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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metaljohn Loyal user Montreal, QC 280 Posts |
I've looked online and got bored with what I found. Most of the time, it's teens with little experience or no concept of performance and misdirection. Even if they reveal it, I'd rather watch something from a cheaply made DVD than a webcam made video for YouTube.
I only use YouTube for performances. |
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