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Mick Ayres Special user Hilton Head Island 998 Posts |
A huge number of mentalists (this includes many well-known professionals) have little to no understanding of basic theatrical elements and how to apply them on stage. How much more entertaining would any mentalism show be if the act offered a coherent and understandable plot from beginning to end? Seriously. Watch almost ANY of the mentalism DVD performances currently available and ask yourself, "What is this guy's character? Is there any conflict, tension, or drama in these presentations? Is this performer's point RELEVANT to his audience? Are the guests engaged or disinterested?" Sadly, those elements are often missing because the performer either has no clue how to put apply them or doesn't want to bother.
The truth is, implementing those theatrical elements into a show takes WORK and lots of it. The scripting and subsequent rehearsals involve a lot of trial-and-error before the act is ready to hit the stage...and even then, the tweaking and revisions will seem endless. So, many performers will simply content themselves with learning the newest 'effect' rather than doing the labor necessary to truly change their show in a meaningful way. Mick
THE FIVE OBLIGATIONS OF CONJURING: Study. Practice. Script. Rehearse. Perform. Drop one and you're done.
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12938 Posts |
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On 2012-04-06 21:57, Mick Ayres wrote: WOW, Sounds like a lot of dedication and.... Work! It'd be easier just to read thru the instructions and get a gig? Wouldn't it? ;) |
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billappleton Inner circle Los Gatos, California 1154 Posts |
Rationale. Why is knowing what someone is thinking magic? Too often it's just because that kind of puzzle lends itself to a good trick.
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Paul Shirley Inner circle Melbourne, Australia 1206 Posts |
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On 2012-04-01 11:31, Dynamike wrote: Oh no! Sad. I think I saw one of them on a milk carton while visiting the U.S.A. Im sure the police are doing everything they can. Posted: Apr 7, 2012 2:57am I agree with a lot of what has already been said. Story telling: A two minute display of mentalism can be transformed in to an enthralling fifteen minute presentation with a well constructed story line. Many performers seem to take a method and think: "Hmmmm what can I do with this? How can I write a script that justifies the use of (Insert gimmick/method of choice here)." Instead, I wish there were more performers allowing their minds to wander free.... think of an interesting story line, and the most mind bending finish to the presentation that you can imagine... THEN work backwards, exploring the various ways to achieve the effect. This would not only promote better story telling... but lend itself to more utility items/methods being invented. Secondly, I feel that humility is sometimes lacking. Ego gets in the way, and the performers main objective seems to be 'how clever can I make myself look'. This is prevalent in 'body language, NLP, psychology' style presentations.... as the 'solution', as far as the audience is concerned, is logical, and something they too could learn... if they were clever enough, or wished to spend years honing their "Powers of observation". I am not having a dig at performers who choose to take the 'Psychology' route... it is just not my cup of tea. I feel it robs the audience of a feeling that, as adults, we don't get to experience much any more. I would rather give credit to un explained powers that, 'I don't even understand', than pretend I had studied body language for 20 years. They are, of course, both lies.... but even though each presentational style creates a sense of wonder... the psychology approach will never have the same level of effect on a participant... as it is merely a puzzle to be solved/learned... instead of complete mystery that may never be explained. I am/have been guilty of all the above... but am working hard to correct this. I just think it is 'Whats missing from Mentalism'. |
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houston_3721 Regular user 140 Posts |
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On 2012-04-07 02:57, Paul Shirley wrote: Well said mate. The "Psychology" thing has got me thinking and I agree with you on its being "not mysterious enough". However, I think many are probably influenced by Mr Brown's logical and entertaining style. The difficult part is to make the whole thing entertaining and meaningful like Brown did.
please pardon my English
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psychospiel New user 25 Posts |
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On 2012-04-07 02:57, Paul Shirley wrote: Yeah, I agree. It's easy with that presentation style to either make it seem like a bunch of cheap tricks which anyone can do or, in trying to avoid this, make it seem superior and to appear to have access to knowledge beyond the level of the audience. Sure, Derren Brown has made a career out of the psychological explanation but that's what fits him... I personally am trying to focus on the 'not explaining it at all' route - I'm currently writing a script with a story, where I tell the audience the story of how I first came to realise I had this skill when I was younger, how I used it to become a more social person and how my grandfather helped me to develop it. This leads on to a trick (and I do call them tricks, except when before an audience, so sue me!) where I demonstrate how my grandfather showed me how to put my skill to good use. The story uses part truth (using my skill as a mentalist to make friends) and part story (the part with my grandfather) and part concealment (I don't explain whether the skill is psychological, psychic etc.). It keeps them guessing; it brings on a bit of my own personality and my own story. If I get asked about it, as I have in more casual performances for acquaintances, I lean toward the psychological explanation without going into detail, perhaps mentioning it is easier to demonstrate it than explain it. If pushed, I can say 'I guess I just use observation and intuition to make it look like something impossible'. Either they get the hint that I'm not going to tell them 'how I did it' (for the most sceptical audience member), or that I just can't describe it. |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Often missing: respect
For people - i.e. fellow performers, audience, public, etc. For people's IP For the art of theatre For the concept of having a purpose for doing this beyond trying to impress people for the sheer value of impressing people IMHO
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
On the concept of theatrics being a missing element, any dramaturg will tell you that stage and screen drama hinge on four types of tension:
- Tension of Mystery - Tension of Task - Tension of Relationship - Tension of Surprise Whilst it's not ESSENTIAL to make use of each element in a play or movie, a clever interweaving of all four adds depth and richness. I saw the movie "Buried" for the first time this weekend, and marvelled at how a 90-minute story could be so effectively told from the inside of a box. The reason it worked? All four branches of tension were used and combined skillfully. So in mentalism, for it to be entertaining and engaging, I posit that we need to script our work to intentionally touch on all four elements. And in some of the videos I have seen online of amateur performers, or spoon benders out for 15 minutes of fame on breakfast TV shows, they are distinctly lacking in 3 out of the 4 areas. And funnily enough the only tension that seems to be present is the tension of task (having to get something done in the face of obstacles). That's right - this "Mystery" art can easily ignore the use of the tension of mystery! And shamefully, I have been guilty of this oversight myself on a number of occasions.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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RLFrame Elite user 447 Posts |
In my never humble opinion... I think Mick Ayres is spot on. There seems to be adequate literature on how to take a routine and add meaning, drama and entertainment value to it... but not much on how to do that on a show level. And no matter how good a routine is, it needs to fit into some overall theatrical structure to get the most entertainment value from it overall. Piecing together, for example, the best scene from the movie The Godfather, with best scene from Citizen Kane, and a touching scene from The Deer Hunter, with the funniest scene from Blazing Saddles would NOT make a very entertaining movie, even though comprised of all great scenes. A good movie grabs you up and takes you along from beginning to end. It doesn't repeatedly drop you off, and then pick you up somewhere else.
Aside from Magic And Showmanship and some chapters in Tarbell, I haven't seen much about show level dramatic structure. Mick's work's are very good examples of sensible complete acts. |
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
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On 2012-04-08 21:29, RLFrame wrote: Piecing together, for example, the best scene from the movie The Godfather, with best scene from Citizen Kane, and a touching scene from The Deer Hunter, with the funniest scene from Blazing Saddles would NOT make a very entertaining movie, even though comprised of all great scenes. I'm not sure - that sounds AWESOME! "The sheriff is a N...!" *DONG* :lol: :rofl:
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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Paul Shirley Inner circle Melbourne, Australia 1206 Posts |
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On 2012-04-08 06:37, houston_3721 wrote: Cheers mate. I agree... Derren 'seems' to have lead the way for the psychological approach. This isn't quite true... but, he IS the most recent. Either way... the interesting thing I find is that... Asides from the 'Disclaimer' (Which I have no doubt, was put in place for legal reasons to begin with) Derren actually performs many effects with no 'psychological' explanation TO the participant at all... Undertaker for example. So, why should't we do the same. No disclaimers... no explanation. Just magic. Quote:
On 2012-04-08 21:29, RLFrame wrote: Piecing together, for example, the best scene from the movie The Godfather, with best scene from Citizen Kane, and a touching scene from The Deer Hunter, with the funniest scene from Blazing Saddles would NOT make a very entertaining movie, even though comprised of all great scenes. I'm not sure - that sounds AWESOME! "The sheriff is a N...!" *DONG* :lol: :rofl: [/quote] "I think he said... the sheriff is near!!!" hahahaha |
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RLFrame Elite user 447 Posts |
I think for many magicians and mentalists, the scene from Blazing Saddles that applies to the awkward or non-existent transition from one demonstration to the next is, "Let me whip this thing out!" ...and we scream and hide our eyes.
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
Thomas Cooper. Thomas is missing from mentalism. And thus any need for a sign warning the first three rows that they just might get a little sticky.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2012-04-09 22:44, JohnWells wrote: I predict he will return soon. |
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insight Inner circle 3095 Posts |
I agree as well, and I think the corrolary is also true. Audience impact is also sometimes "missing". Remember, it's all about how the effect is perceived by the audience. That is what creates a mentalism miracle that is impossible to explain.
Regards, Mike Quote:
On 2012-03-28 07:44, Jon_Thompson wrote: |
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Diasgemini Regular user Paris & Portugal 101 Posts |
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On 2012-03-28 17:37, granterg wrote: To buy what? The public's thought's? |
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
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On 2012-04-09 23:18, mastermindreader wrote: Hey Bob, PM if you get a chance. I had an idea for you. Thanks Greg |
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Maritess Regular user 165 Posts |
I'd like to see mentalists treat women with a little more respect, whether they are interacting with or referring to female mentalists, magicians or their female volunteers. I love this art, but I don't like it when the female gender is treated as an alien life form--which admittedly is true for a lot of geeky people. This is why many mentalists are ridiculed in the media (see the NY Times article about the Foodie Mentalist) and by audiences (which is also the problem in magic) is because of this lack of sensitivity. And sensitivity is what mentalists should be about.
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quicknotist Special user 888 Posts |
Live animals.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2012-04-13 20:24, quicknotist wrote: Sounds like you've never met some of my audiences! |
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