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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Vernon's Cups and Balls Routine (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bob Gerdes
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Quote:
On 2003-10-01 17:04, Pete Biro wrote:
I think producing the balls might make the spekie think you maybe produced another one secretly. Bringing out one ball per cup makes more sense TO ME. Smile


I feel EXACTLY the same way. After all, if the magician can simply produce as many balls as he likes, what's the big deal that they apparently disappear and reappear elsewhere?

I think if you really want to convince them that you only are using 3 balls, its better to just bring them out...... do the utility pass as Vernon suggests..... then you've clearly shown them 3 balls and 2 otherwise empty (?) hands. What could be simpler?

Does anyone know if Vernon ever magically produced the balls at the beginning? I'm sure he must have considered it!

Then again, I guess there are people who consider everything BEFORE the final loads to be just prelude. That fruit, or whatever, is all the people will remember!

(And I must confess.... the first time I saw Ammar's production of the third ball, I nearly fell out of my seat. So, what the hell do I know?) Smile
Eschew obfuscation
cardguy
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To produce or not produce? We now have a new question. Very interesting...
Frank G. a.k.a. Cardguy
Pete Biro
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The answer.........

Do what works for you!

Smile

Y'know, it's not like you just do a routine once. Try it different ways and do it do it do it ... it really takes a looooooooooooooong time to really figure out what is best.

Smile Smile Smile
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DwightPA
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Dwight Powell
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It's been a while since I looked at the Ammar tapes, but it seems to me that he did mention that the Vernon routine he shows was the one that Vernon had developed and refined over the years.

I, too, have not cared for the french drop explanation, but I wonder if it doesn't fall in the category of (I think it was) Teller's theory that even if you explain it, the spectator will most likely not believe you.

Dwight Powell
TheAmbitiousCard
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I only do John Bannon's cups and balls because I like the patter.

In his chop cup routine, however, Bannon uses the false explanation but in a wonderful way.

His false explanation is so obviously impossible that either the spectators "REALLY" believe it and in that case, who cares what you tell them, OR they don't believe it, and in that case, it's just funny.

He says that The reason the ball ends up under the cup is this...

Instead of saying "I don't actually take the ball" (exposing a french drop)

he says "I take the ball (which you don't) and it shoots up my sleeve, around around my shoulders, back down the other sleeve, and .... under the cup.

This is funny, (or absolutely pure magic to those who truly believe), and complete nonsense so I think it's great.


Anyone have an opinon on that one?
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Kaliix
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Frank,
I have an opinion on that one. It would be even funnier in short sleeves! Smile

Seriously though, that is the kind of fake explanation I like. The "fake" French drop just seemed to make me a bit uncomfortable.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
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Alessandro Scotti
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Like Pete said, it takes a long time to decide what's best and even then personal preferences may change at any time.
At present I like NOT to produce. Rather, I openly show three cups and three balls and start the routine with those. A fourth ball is then secretly loaded a little later into the performance.
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Pete Biro
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Allan Hayden has a routine I like. He starts with one ball and three cups and the routine is much like the three shell game... then at a point in the routine the spekie guesses right... but then he lifts the other two cups and there is a ball under each.
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JamesinLA
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That's a nice way to produce the other two balls magically. Then it's like the magic has to do with the cups, not the magician so much. It makes me feel that there could be one ball for each cup, thus taking care of the xth ball possibility.
BTW, I believe Vernon was "82 years of age" as he put it, "Not a spring chicken" in the Ammar dvd footage from Mark Wilson.
Jim
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David Le
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I don't wanna be boisterous here, but I think it's practically genius.
You can "emulate" his act by using coffee cups and I suppose tinfoil balls.

Watch how he handles moves like KAPS SUBTLETY and some false transfers.....

And watch as he is LIFTING the first cup as he teaches something to aid the old woman Smile

Amazing!

By the way, emulate don't imitate. Smile
Whit Haydn
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Imitate.
cfrye
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Quote:
On 2003-10-09 12:44, whithaydn wrote:
Imitate.


From Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai, page 34:

"According to Master Ittei, even a poor penman will become substantial in the art of calligraphy if he studies by imitating a good model and puts forth effort."
Pete Biro
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OK Whit... does that mean I can start using your act?
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David Le
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All right then, imitate!

Smile Smile Smile
Pete Biro
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Someone said, "IF you can do an impression of Rich Little, that would cover EVERYBODY." Smile Smile Smile
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David Le
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I can't wait 'til Mr. David Copperfield or whoever's in charge for it sells LASER to the magic community Smile

I can't wait to rip off his AMAZING performance style. Smile

One time in my life, I used to do Lance Burton's cups and balls EXACTLY as he did it, but with slightly modified patter and the avoidance of the Moses joke. So was I imitating or emulating? Smile
Whit Haydn
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Quote:
On 2003-10-09 15:50, Pete Biro wrote:
OK Whit... does that mean I can start using your act?


Sure, Pete. Join the crowd. But why sink so low? Pick some act that actually makes money... Smile
Pete Biro
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Yah, you're right... too many Whits out there already... tsk tsk... Smile
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Ron Giesecke
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I remember the first time I witnessed the cups and balls as a layman. Paul Gertner provides the "fake transfer" explanation, and in my opinion, it added to the effect.

I currently do that bit. Ricky Jay manages to keep it in his pedantic history lesson as well, for some reason. Perhaps out of homage to Vernon.

I think he attributes the historical explanation to Hofzinser, if I am not mistaken.

So, where could one locate Bannon's cups and balls routine?
Jonathan Townsend
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I don't understand why folks do any explaining or history lessons in performance.

Folks don't care about the history, and really don't care about the methods.

Real sore issue about Hofzinser who was quite bitter about copyists.

Anyone doing the bit as shown in "Time Bandits"?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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