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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Motivation for Coins through table (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Paul Sherman
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Quote:
On 2003-09-30 16:55, JonTown wrote:
Anyone got a good MOTIVATION for the coins passing through the table?


I thought this question deserved a thread of it's own. Anyone have any ideas?

After thinking about it for a few minutes, the following occurred to me. I'll just present it in rough narrative form for ease of explanation:

Quote:
You know in addition to being a magician, I'm also something of a gambler. It's not always easy to get into games though because people always assume that I'm going to cheat with the cards. What they don't realize is that cardsharps cheat with cards, but magicians cheat with chips. Let me show you.

Suppose I was laying down a $100 bet with these $25 dollar chips. When I pushed them into the pot I might give them a little extra push, like this, and ... (raise hand straight up, somewhat cramped, to reveal only 3 chips) ... steal one from the pot. But I don't steal it with this hand (turn hand over to show it empty), I steal it with THIS hand! (Pull other hand from under table displaying chip.) I actually push the chip THROUGH the table...


So you can see where the routine might go from there. I imagine one could come up with some funny justifications for pushing the last chip through, since clearly the vanish of one's entire bet would raise some eyebrows.

Anyone else have a justification for putting coins through a table?

Paul
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase



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wsduncan
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Paul,
That's a great idea.
Mike Powers
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I agree. Excellent idea!

Mike
DJP
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Great idea, anyone wish to publish any more ideas that you use?

Dave
David
Paul Sherman
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Thanks Dave, Mike, and wsduncan, glad to hear you like the idea. Does anyone else feel like providing motivation for putting coins through a table?

Someone mentioned on the other thread something to the effect of "say every table has a soft spot". I don't really consider this much of a motivation because:

a) It doesn't answer "why" the table has a soft spot, which is arguably a pretty good question. Why on earth would people build tables with soft spots? Things might fall through all the time. This leads to...

b) Even if the table has a soft spot, why put coins through that soft spot? Wouldn't you more reasonably put through things commonly found on tables? Why not put unwanted food through the table so the dog eats it? Or push through a crystal saltshaker you want to surreptitiously swipe from a fancy restaurant. Coins seem sort of arbitrary.

So, in that vein, does anyone have other ideas as to why coins (or coin like objects) might get pushed through a table?

Maybe you always set out 2 dollars (4 halves) in tip money at the beginning of your meal. Every time the waiter forgets to refill your water or neglects to bring appetizers in a timely manner you "vanish one of the coins". Of course, you don't want to loose the coin forever, so you don't actually vanish it, you just push it through the soft spot into your waiting hand. That presentation may or may not appeal to you, but it’s something more than “look at this thing I can do”.

I guess what I’m trying to get at is that the soft spot isn't the motivation; it's the supposed method. I suppose one could say "here's an interesting property about tables that you might not know", but it strikes me that there are other, more interesting, funnier, or more magical motivations.

So what are they?

Paul
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase



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Jonathan Townsend
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I had a small idea for a presentation about magic on stage in the old theaters where the stages had trap doors.

In a puff of smoke, or under a stage set or behind a crowd or ... people would seem to disappear; really falling through trap doors. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
mystre71
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I have two ideas one I'm using the other still working on.

The first: I got the idea after watching Eugene B. do his “Coins Through Table” on the "Coin Classics"

I also use a die but I talk about people betting on dice.
And that they don't know it, but dice attract money like a magnet. Which is why you lose your money.

Even if I was to separate the die and the money by placing the table between the two, and then bet, the attraction is so strong the money will be lost. It will end up with the die.

The 2nd is “Time Travel”. I really like the idea of time travel and I'm not working on the same theme for my International 3 fly (Right now I use house fly horse fly and dragon fly.)

But for “Coins Through…, after performing another coin trick and tossing the coins to the table,
I then suddenly think of something and pick up the coins and say, “What if, we was to go back in time when this table wasn't here? The coins would fall right to the floor.”
I'm sure you get the idea.

Best
Joe
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mithrius
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I love this thread! I've always avoided tricks like this for that very reason, even though I knew they had a strong impact.

I like the idea of poker chips, actually. The coins become just handy objects for illustration. I mean, who carries around poker chips? Good stuff.

While most of the thread concentrates on why the coins penetrate the table, it hasn't addressed yet why we insist on doing several penetrations. If I were really pushing a coin through a solid table top (for whatever reason), wouldn't that be impressive enough?
David Neighbors
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Hi Paul,
Sorry you don't like the soft spot idea!
I have used it for the last 35 year to great reaction!
And why? To show my magic powers! I don't think you have to take it that every table has one, just that you are able to find them! Or maybe that the coins are soft and they will fall through the right spot! And why don't I put other things through? Coins are what I use and are small enough to fit through the soft spot! Other stuff is too big!!! Well that's my 2 cent's. But your patter sounds cool. And I Am sure it plays good for you!
Take care man!

Best David Neighbors
The Coinjurer
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www.coinjurer.com
Geoff Latta
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Psherman,

Good plot. For what it’s worth, I'll tell you what I used to use about a million years ago.

I'd do a “coins across”, then say something like: "So the coins go from the left hand to the right. But how amazing is that, really? I mean, it's not like there's anything preventing them from doing that; a barrier or something; there's nothing but air between those hands...but if there were..."

Then you do the coins through the table. The idea is that this is somehow harder because instead of having the coins pass through unobstructed space, they have to pass through a very solid obstruction: the table. Possibly it's their table. Or, if you're out at a restaurant, it's someone else's table. At any rate, it's not yours, and so there can't be anything "funny" about it. And because you have the use of your lap (which, though it's not currently in fashion, is like doing sleight of hand with three hands) it can be perceived as far more impossible than the coins across. You can be clean in places and at times that you could never be clean in a coins across. Intelligent use of the advantages here can make miracles.

As David Roth once pointed out to me, you can also do this backwards (i.e.: do the CTTT first and then say something like "Here, I'll do it again, only this time I'll keep both hands in plain sight." and do a CA. But there you'll have to find or invent a different justification for the initial CTTT plot. Not hard to do…)

Either way can work. The point is to have a point of view on the trick; i.e., why am I doing this procedure?

FWIW,

Best,

Geoff
"There is a thin line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." --Oscar Levant
Mike Powers
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If you want to get really esoteric, you can use a Quantum Mechanics theme. It turns out that solid through solid, not only does not violate the laws of physics, but actually does happen in nature. Transistors work because particles undergo "barrier penetration." In QM class we had to calculate the probability of a car passing through a bridge abutment. It was incredibly small but not zero. If you're interested, there are many books that talk about QM in a non-mathematical way.

It's interesting how few magic tricks violate any laws of nature. None of these violate laws of nature: color change, transposition, vanish and recovery, one card changing into another, spellbound (as long as the mass stays the same), solid through solid, levitation (there's some upward force even if you can't see it) etc.

A complete vanish does violate fundamental laws and people know this to the core of their being. I always like to bring back vanished objects because, I belive, people KNOW that you're just hiding them somewhere. Perhaps the suspension of disbelief is impossible when something vanishes and never comes back whereas it is possible when something vanishes and is then found elsewhere...?

Mike
Mark Ennis
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Paul,

Very interesting presentation... I think it would play very well. (You could always substitute the chips with coins and tell the tale as if you were playing penny ante poker.)

I bet someone clever could use a similar theme in regards to stealing coins when performing a matrix routine.
ME
Jonathan Townsend
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Welcome to Josehpson's Junction. Let me get on my engineer's cap and show you how we do things <g>

In a similar vein, imagine the tabletop as the surface of a a pool, and these coin floating. Some things float on water till you push them down, and then they sink.

Perhaps by magic and imagination you could see a coin turn from solid to a heavy vapor that seeps through the table.

Do you mind if I put a hole in your table for a few minutes. <big smile> It's a magicians hole, just like in the cartoons. See, you can put it wherever you want. Over there... sure. Really, you could drop a coin right through the table. Or put it here. And drop another one through. ... I usually keep this in my pocket <g>

Other suggestions?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Paul Sherman
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Quote:
On 2003-10-02 02:19, Geoff Latta wrote:

The point is to have a point of view on the trick; i.e., why am I doing this procedure?



Here, here!

Since we brought up pseudo-scientific explanations, how about this:

"When I perform magic, from time to time I hear people say, 'It's done with magnets.' I always think this is funny because I never actually do any magic with magnets. I always thought magnetism was pretty magical on its own. And now you can buy these really small powerful rare-earth magnets that can do some pretty amazing stuff."

"I have one here...and I also these coins (Canadian coins or some other country's ferromagnetic currency.)"

You could openly demonstrate the magnetic properties of the coins (if that bothers you or you use that modus for another trick, you could use washers). Play up how strong the magnet is. "It even works long distances"...have a coin in one hand, the magnet in the other, bring the hands together slowly and, when close enough, muscle pass the coin across to the magnet.

"That's not the half of it though, check this out...". Do coins through table, the uber-powerful magnet apparently pulling them through the surface. The open use of the magnet might even allow for some really neat lapping. You could silently lap more than one coin as long as they were stuck to the magnet (or a duplicate magnet).

So in this instance you start off with legitimate properties of the coins and magnet, which get progressively (but still logically) more and more amazing, until finally they become absolutely impossible.

Paul
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase



some youtube videos
mithrius
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Hmm, I wonder what kind of impact it would be to do that same routine without a magnet, just a flat piece of granite or something? You pantomime the entire routine so that the audience is led to believe it's a magnet, then after you've performed the CTTT effect, you drop all the stuff on the table. Naturally, someone will want to play with the magnet, but will be surprised to find out it attracts no metal. I guess you could do some "I'm going to demagnetize the magnet" trick, too.
wsduncan
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When I first read Roth's “Portable Hole” I thought it made a better theme for coins thru the table than the actual routine he used it with.

Introducing the hole (or the ring as David Regal does) as an object of interest motivates the routine as a demonstration of the object (basic Henning Nelms stuff here...).

I like Jon's idea of the surface of a pond. If you had some coins with fish on them (Koi?) then you could slap the surface of the pond and chase the fish down under. It could be charming.

Also, I’m still very much liking the poker chip idea.
Paul Chosse
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One of my amour's favorite memories is a wish from her childhood. Whenever she got into trouble she thought about the cartoon where the guy drew a circle on the wall, climbed into it, and then drew it in after him, until everything was gone! That was her solution to her troubles.

Think “dry erase marker” for the hole, and the “coins through …” ala Slydini for the penetration. With the coins apparently in the right hand, hand in a fist, circle drawn on the table, you rub your hand on the circle, in a circle, the dry erase vanishing and the circle you are making getting smaller and smaller, until you stop, press down, and reveal the coins gone!

This looks quite magical. I've tried it. I use a pane of glass as the surface, but a Formica table will work, or anything else that you can draw on with the dry erase marker. You do end up with the ink on your hand. I lift the right hand up to show the coins gone, produce them from under the table with the left hand, and as the spectator is looking at the left hand and coins, I wipe the ink off on my jeans leg! Obviously this can get messy. A napkin in your lap would be more practical.

Anyway, it is not finished, but there is an idea to work with.

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
Jonathan Townsend
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You did not read Paul's post.

You did not read Paul's post.

Every time you scan this thread you will glance over the post... and feel no interest.

You will wonder sometimes why you get the feeling you should buy a black magic marker... and carry wipes with you... though feel no need to act on this idea.

There is nothing to be gained in visiting a good stationary store for dry erase markers and wipes.

There is no need to carry the marker and use it as a wand.

And... no reason to remember this post if you even noticed it to begin with.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jeff Haas
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Dang, I'm sleepy!
nycmagic
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Because you can.
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