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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Nyc, you could do all kinds of things, but you don't because they are non-productive, socially unacceptable, or such reasons.
The response: "because I can" is one of the reasons magic is held in such low esteem in our society. You might want to become part of the solution instead of holding onto the problem.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Bravo Mr. Chosse, you've made my day. "Dry erase markers, pack of 100" goes on the office supplies list. (There are some advantages to keeping the day job.)
Jon, you know the Jedi mind-wipe doesn't work without the official horizontal hand jive, as in: (wave) "This is not the clever and imaginative solution you have been looking for." (wave) "You can go back to re-hashing Don Alan." Of course, I don't need Jedi mind tricks now that I've got one of these:
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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nycmagic New user New York, NY 54 Posts |
Why lie to your audience with the pseudo-scientific nonsense? If I hear another static electricity justification I may have to barf. Do you think your audience is that stupid? The reason why you do it is because it's something beautiful. If you care about your tricks and can get excited with them and can share this enthusiasm with your audience, you have enough reason to do the trick.
Jeremy |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
NYC, you are half way there with the part about sharing the enthusiasm.
Agreed about using trite and obviously specious and insulting explanations as offensive... The question here is about providing a frame for the phenomena demonstrated.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-10-03 16:38, nycmagic wrote: Because you can. Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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saturnin Special user Montreal, Canada 964 Posts |
...Why lie to your audience with the pseudo-scientific nonsense? ...
Jeremy Mr Chosse's answer: "BECAUSE YOU CAN!" I am the only that heard the evil laughter after I read Mr. Chosse's answer?!?! Ahahahahaha Ronnie Lemieux
There is no road to happiness,
happiness is the road! |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Ronnie... consider that evil laugh present from the moment he communicated the image of taking a dry marker to the tabletop. I tried to spare you the horror... really tried.
Now like some Lovecraftian horror the black dry marker will spread onto tabletops planet wide... and then The fumes... the fumes...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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MICKEY SILVER Elite user Boston, Ma. 442 Posts |
Hello everyone, …one of my very favorite! Taking a silver dollar, (a table full of people.) Let a person drop the silver dollar in the palm of my right hand (left hand, held up and away in clear view.) My right hand turns over in the middle of the table, taps the table a few times, then I look into the eyes of everyone at the table. I then say, “I want a volunteer to tell me when to drop this coin through the table.” When that person says, ‘now’, believe me, that coin goes right through that table, landing on the floor, leaving my hand empty. Remember it happens when the person says, ‘now.’” with everyone burning my hands! It’s a fantastic piece of magic. It can be repeated only one time.
I believe that's the way a coin through a table should really look! I’d love to show it to you guys some time! It’s really amazing! …makes every one think? |
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nycmagic New user New York, NY 54 Posts |
But they won't believe the lie. That's the problem I have for it. Audiences are smart, and if you explain the phenomena is due to "static electricity" they either think you're an idiot or you're full of it. (Unless your tounge is firmly planted in your cheek.) And if there is someone who believes your explanation of static electricity, then you are no longer doing magic in their eyes, and are merely doing a science demo.
And the “because you can” thing has some merit. If everyone could do it, then it wouldn't be special. Jeremy Quote:
On 2003-10-03 18:13, saturnin wrote: |
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
Jeremy,
The problem with "because you can" is that usually that presentation is accompanied by meaningless or less than beautiful magic. The last trick of Dr. Jacob Daley is a great trick but it's meaningless without a decent script. Causing cards to change places, just because you can, is showing off at best and boring at worst. “Coins thru …” is seldom beautiful in the eyes of a non-magician. Gypsy thread perhaps, and some animations, but most magic tricks need "something" to make the of interest to a non-magician. cheers bill |
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DJP Veteran user London 391 Posts |
To go back to Jon's Idea and PChosse's, I just had an idea to combine the two.
Jon talked about Quote:
Do you mind if I put a hole in your table for a few minutes. <big smile> It's a magicians hole, just like in the cartoons. See, you can put it wherever you want. Over there... sure. Really, you could drop a coin right through the table. Or put it here. etc... And PChosse talked about: Quote:
One of my amour's favorite memories is a wish from her childhood. Whenever she got into trouble she thought about the cartoon where the guy drew a circle on the wall, climbed into it, and then drew it in after him, until everything was gone! That was her solution to her troubles. Now I thought that putting a "imaginary hole" in the table was not credible, and the idea of drawing on a table with a marker pen did not seem practical. So how about making a hole? And old Close-up mat cut into a small circle would be ideal to carry, and would mean performable on all tables. This would then exactly fit in with the whole (pun not intended) cartoon idea, where Bugs Bunny would make a hole and disappear into it. Let me know what you think or have any developments on the idea. Dave
David
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Dave wrote the following:
Quote:
Now I thought that putting a "imaginary hole" in the table was not credible, and the idea of drawing on a table with a marker pen did not seem practical. So how about making a hold? This is the "portable hole" concept. It has been explored in many ways. Dick Zimmerman had a "hole" act founded on it. Some of the things he did were to open his briefcase, take out the hole, close the case, and then realize that he had forgotten something else he needed in the case. He went to open the case but it was locked, and the key was inside! He put the portable hole on top of the case, reached in and got the key, then used the key to open the case! Things vanished in the hole, were produced from it, etc. David Roth had a "hole" coin routine structured around a portable hole, and Billy McCcomb had an act that was a comedy bit wherein he took you on a tour of his "hole" collection. Different types of holes, all with a comedy twist to them. Key holes, mole holes, hole in the wall holes, holes in one, holey smokes, etc. This was a marketed effect that was very funny, even if not so magical. Yes, the idea of a portable hole and other hole effects has been much explored. What I was trying to get at with the dry erase bit, was the hole really and visually disappearing, with the coins seeming to go thru the hole just as the hole was pulled into itself. It really is quite a fantasy effect, and looks very good. Give it a try, you'll be surprised! Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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Zach Allen Elite user 466 Posts |
I once had an idea for a coins through table routine. I never really worked with it, however. I figured that it might charm the audience, though.
To begin the effect, you would take out a small minature wooden table, perhaps about 8x8 inches or so. You would want the audience's eye level to be quite above the table for this. Then, you would introduce four half-dollar (or dollar, if you use those) size plates. Set the table on your close-up mat, and set the plates on the table. The physical stage is now set; all you have to do is enlighten the audience as to what you are about to do. "When we were kids, my sister and I were the best of friends. She was the sister who, although you loved her, was just all over the place. She was just that kind of clumsy kid, always tripping over things, always dropping things, and it was her job to set the table. Night after night, she would always break a dish or glass, and it was a rare night when nothing was broken in the Allen household. So, one night after watching her break yet another dish, I resolved to come up with some way to help her. It never occured to me to offer to set the table for her; we were close friends, but not THAT close. So I decided to use my magic powers to help her. I would watch her, and when she dropped a plate onto the table, I would cause a small hole - a miniscule one, just big enough to accompany the plate - to appear in the table, and the plate would just melt through just like that, and fall to the thick plush rug below, unharmed. I, of course, hadn't told her what I was doing, and so she just gave the table a 'what just happened here look' and tentatively dropped another plate on the table. Just like before it passed through. 'Zach, did you see that?' she asked me? 'No,' I said, 'See what?' She dropped another plate, and it passed through once more. At this point I could barely conceal my smile, and told her that I didn't see it, and if she could try it again. So she took the last plate, and just gave it a gentle tap against the table, and it too, fell through onto the floor. She looked at me in dumbstruck awe, as I shrugged and told her that at least she wasn't breaking them anymore. She probably would've stared at the table for hours, if not for Mom walking in and yelling at us, asking why the plates for dinner were under the table with the dog licking at them. She gave us quite a punishment for that, but that's another story for another time...." That was just a rough draft of the patter that I would've used with that effect. Maybe one day I'll get around to getting a miniture table and trying it out for myself.
Check out all 6 of my e-books!
The Magic of Zach Allen Also, here is a free PDF of ideas: Starlit Circles |
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DJP Veteran user London 391 Posts |
Sorry Paul,
I didn't know the above performers had already used the idea to it's full. I should have realised that it's quite a primitive idea in the first place, thus probably would have been used before. Zach I like your story, and it seems credible too, with a "tongue-in-cheek" manner. Dave
David
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Paul,
Just wanted to let you know that the marker idea has borne strange fruit. I'm considering using a marker dot, or an "X" on the table as the cork in Ramsay's Cylinder and Coins. You know, the coins all vanish and appear under the "x", which is now on the top coin of the stack, and not on the table. The second phase presents some interesting presentational options...
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Good idea Curtis!
I was waiting to see if anyone actually did anything with the concept - glad to see it didn't go unused. There are several other applications that I have experimented with, but was going to keep to myself. Maybe I'll share, if there is still some interest. Let me know how it plays out with the Ramsay thing, will you? Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Paul, seems promising so far, but really, the C&C has been more of a way of generating new ideas than the search for a new piece to perform (I don't even own a decent cylinder yet). There are some ideas about coins coming up through the table, and treasure maps, etc.
The problem I'm having right now is sound. For the marker idea to work, I think I need a smooth, solid surface. This makes is hard to table the stack quietly. Unless the stack is padded, and surfaced like an eraser, which might be quite useful, come to think about it. More news as it happens...
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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Clarioneer Special user Ferndown, Dorset, UK 624 Posts |
Using a coin under the table to make the supposed noise kind of gives things away don't you think - when other arm is out of site?
Here's a thought... Move the coin to your knee or simply hold it on edge of table Ask spec to hold their hand under yours - drop the coin from small height into their hand and jog your knee (or drop coin onto floor) and simply say - wow how did you manage to miss that one ? Surely this would get more surprise anyway ? They aren't going to believe it went through table so at least this will get a laugh or two? Whoops - forgot the motivation.... Reach over to spec and say you've really got to see this coin its got wierd properties - whenever I toss it I always seem to miss the catch... I call it my drop coin - Here, I'll show you what I mean - place you hand under mine... see what I mean..... this is enough misdirection to place 10 coins on your knee in just the right place....
catch you later
Clarioneer |
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BradleyNott Veteran user Westwood, CA (UCLA) 351 Posts |
Somebody posted a gambling idea using poker chips and the idea that if a magician were to cheat at cards he wouldn't palm off a chip because that'd be too obvious. Instead he'd pass them through the table saying that if done carefully and with great skill, the missing chip goes unoticed.
How about... Use four chips or four silver half dollars and use the first 3 penetrations as the demonstration. Then shuffle the cards and deal a hand to spectators and yourself. You now have the practical reason for vanishing the last chip through the table, of the cards dealt, you have the worst hand! If you want to redeem yourself, you could develop a method to change your hand to a royal flush and produce the silver half dollars from the cards saying "now that's worth a good bet!" You've now gone full circle, cheating at a real hand of poker, what EVERY lay person imagines magicians can do.
If you were a hotdog, and you were starving...would you eat yourself? I know I would!
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Silvester New user 53 Posts |
Yavid2001
your suggestions are lovely!! |
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