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Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
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On 2012-04-13 16:58, TonyB2009 wrote: The Knock apparition was 1879. The first projected movies were not until almost 20 years later. How could the priest get a movie projector and project the images? Peace and Godspeed
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2012-04-16 07:34, TonyB2009 wrote: I could argue that Joseph Mengele (and many others of his ilk throughout history) was a scientist. Also, there does exist a view that atheism has been the force behind many atrocities. See, for example, http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
Well Bob, we can't argue with the Christian Science Monitor, can we? I invited a pair of them into the house once to debate the origins of the world. After about five minutes they upped and ran! It was a fun evening.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
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On 2012-04-16 10:03, Dreadnought wrote: The image at Knock was stationary - one of the things that distinguishes it from other apparitions around the world. It was also reported to be flat, and on the wall of the church. Moving projectors were a long way off at that time, but static projections of images on slides were common. Although the slide the priest used is long gone, his projector did survive long enough for the real story to become known.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On 2012-04-16 10:45, TonyB2009 wrote: I never said I agreed with the article. But don't you think it might be a better approach to discuss the premise of the article rather than just attacking the messenger? |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
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On 2012-04-16 00:17, mastermindreader wrote: Thanks for proving my point! The truth is often painful for those on the end of the Doctors needle....
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
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On 2012-04-16 11:08, mastermindreader wrote: I was being sarcastic. I never for a moment thought you were citing it as an authority. But just for fun, let us look at what they claimed. First, Hitler was a secular atheistic leader. Not true. He was raised Catholic, and remained a christian (though not a practicing catholic) throughout his life. From one of his speeches: "My feeling as a Christian points me to my lord and saviour as a fighter..." Stalin and Mao are responsible for huge numbers of deaths. But they overturned regimes that were also responsible for oppression and death, and which supported state religions. Their pogroms were not inspired by their atheism. Finally, the article claims that many conflicts labelled religious (they mention the Northern Ireland conflict) are not religious at all. You could argue that the religious views of the protagonists were coincidental, as the Christian Science Monitor seems to. But the truth is that the republican (catholic) side began the conflict in 1969 as a result of discrimination in the workplace and in local government - discrimination which was firmly based on religion. So it was a religious conflict as well as being about other issues. The article was seriously flawed on a number of fronts, both factually and in their interpretation of the facts. I did not point any of that out, because I knew you were not taking quoting the article as a serious authority, just as another opinion. All the best, Tony
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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JamesTalbert New user 42 Posts |
Mastermindreader is Mr Bob Cassidy, correct? Like the Mr Cassidy? (Sorry for the dumb question, I'm new here)
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DWRackley Inner circle Chattanooga, TN 1909 Posts |
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On 2012-04-16 14:11, JamesTalbert wrote: LOL!!! Welcome to the circus, Mr. Talbert. You found us on one of our better days! ----- Wow, when I left I thought this had just about played itself out. Now it’s gone in a whole ‘nuther direction! Quote:
On 2012-04-16 08:44, TonyB2009 wrote: Is it your intent to imply that anyone who carries a “belief” has been brainwashed? By what appears to be your definition, I might be inclined to agree with you, but I’d point the gun in the other direction. Do you “believe” in global warming? Do you believe evolution? Do you believe that the Arizona Sheriff who claims Obama’s birth certificate is a fake was lying or performed a faulty investigation? Congratulations! You drank the Kool-Aid! There is far more than we can (or should) deal with in a forum about trickery, but suffice it to say that there are many people with high intelligence, supportive education, and no political agenda who do not follow the crowd in these currently popular dogmas. It is incredibly compelling to paint those who posit a different position as incompetent, and a broad brush is required to make it all fit. For example, I’ve heard one “leading” atheist claim that anyone who did not hold a belief in a specific god was by default or by definition an atheist. This is a far cry from Madalyn Murray O'hair’s vehement diatribes over the idiocy of Christianity and the absolute impossibility of any kind of supernatural intervention in the affairs of men. Similarly, Hitler was mentioned above, and labeled as a Christian, a point I’d have to clarify. While he may have wrapped himself in the trappings of Christendom, his guidance came from an oracle that most Christians (at least outwardly) don’t approve of. In fact, his love of astrology was so well known that the Allies hired astrologers of their own, in hopes of learning what Hitler’s advisers were telling him. Obeisance to God? Hardly!! On some of your earlier posts, Tony, I would have said that I agree with you for the most part (actually better than 99.99% part). I’m simply aware (KEENLY aware, being an irrational believer in things that can’t be captured in a test tube) that scientists are just as fallible as anyone else, especially when their pet theories are challenged. (Remember that it was the scientific community that Uri Geller had the most fun with!) If I ever saw a bleeding statue, I wouldn’t even bother to look for the tubes, so strong would be my assumption that trickery was indicated. One of the first things I tried as a 15 year old magician was to turn a “stick” into a snake; I succeeded, one time, using a small garter snake found in my backyard. It was extremely tedious, but very rewarding; freaked the heck out of some neighbor kids. The problem comes when we accept as “unquestionable fact” those things which should be held as “strongly indicated probabilities”. Science in many areas today behaves exactly like religion. Dissenters are not tolerated, and this in some areas where “peer review” is not completely adequate. It becomes a political contest to sway public opinion. I mentioned global warming earlier. A very little research will show that many intelligent people, scientists, engineers, doctors, meteorologists, etc. DO NOT agree with the forecast, the purported causes, the data, or the methods of selecting that data. And yet it is “the consensus of the scientific community” that we are in grave danger. It is arrogant at best to “believe” that we have all the facts at any given time. Remember that Newton was not the end of the line, nor was Einstein. It frightens me when voices are silenced and small groups of men determine for everyone else when it’s time to close the book. I’m not that far right of most, it only seems that way to extremists I choose to apply my skepticism to a broader spectrum than some others may. It can be very enlightening. Skeptics are believers, too.
...what if I could read your mind?
Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com also on FaceBook |
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DWRackley Inner circle Chattanooga, TN 1909 Posts |
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On 2012-04-16 09:16, that'sJustWrong! wrote: Would you be willing to trade for a blessed éclair? If you say a prayer before putting it into the microwave, chocolate cream will ooze from a hole in its side!
...what if I could read your mind?
Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com also on FaceBook |
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Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
I haven't seen or heard of anything that debunked the Apparition at Knock. Not saying it was debunked, I just can't find anything other than a two line blurb saying the BBC may have debunked in 1979. Either way, it must not have been that much said, because I can't find anything, again not saying they didn't. I will also say that it is the weirdest of the approved apparitions, which has caused me to question it, but until there is hardcore physical evidence against, I bow to the Church's decision.
I will also say that is funny how Atheist blame religion for pretty much everything that is wrong with society, or at least what they started, however; Atheist, from my experience - except for the other day - have never given religion credit for the good it has done. Atheist also never seem to think that Atheism, or their fellow Atheist, has ever caused any evil in the world. All I hear is the fruits of Atheism is peace, love and happy good feeling stuff. Peace and Godspeed.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
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ThatsJustWrong! Special user My flying monkeys are perched on 629 Posts |
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On 2012-04-16 14:45, DWRackley wrote: As long as its ooze hole is on the side...
Joe Leo
All entertainers can benefit from some help from an experienced stage director. How about you? www.MisfitMysteries.com |
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duanebarry Special user 883 Posts |
Science:
A predictive model of observable events, subject to test and revision. So: According to the model most folks work with, the Earth will continue in its present orbit around the sun, it will continue rotating on its axis, and the sun won't explode anytime soon. If those assumptions of the model hold true, the model predicts that the sun will indeed appear to rise again tomorrow morning. There's a bit more going on there than in either "It's a fact that the sun will rise," or "I believe the sun will rise." Both those assertions omit any notion of a MODEL, which accounts for somebody's understanding of WHY stuff is happening. Magicians count on their audiences holding incomplete and/or flawed models, and/or making incorrect/inadequate observations about the system they are observing while at a show. Generally speaking, the more testing an audience can perform, even simply through repeated observation, the more effectively they will be able to revise their model and successfully explain the events they are observing. There's science in action! |
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DWRackley Inner circle Chattanooga, TN 1909 Posts |
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On 2012-04-16 15:25, duanebarry wrote: Now where's that LIKE button when you need it!?!
...what if I could read your mind?
Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com also on FaceBook |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
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On 2012-04-16 14:43, DWRackley wrote: I believe in global warming, in the sense that we know, from scientific observation, that the world is warming up. There was a mini ice-age from the mid seventeenth to the mid nineteenth century, which has now passed. Believing in global warming does not mean that I believe that mankind is the sole, or even the primary, cause. I have doubts there. The beauty of science is that though there is a consensus, there are dissenters. They are not excommunicated. If they prove right, the scientific consensus will change. That is where science, a method of investigation, is different from belief systems. I believe in evolution, in the sense that we know animal have evolved from other animals. Even the major religions (with the exception of bible belt USA) accept this. However knowing that evolution happened does not mean I am committed to a particular view of the world. There are huge questions still unanswered. Science will gradually chip away at them, and our understanding of evolution could be thrown on its head in a decade. You never know. However that won't change the fact that species do evolve and the fittest survive. I have never heard about Obama's fake birth cert, and couldn't give two hoots either way! It is a matter of regional interest only. You make some interesting points. But the fact remains that science differs from belief systems in that it does change when proven wrong. You could say that science is another example of evolution! Dreadnought, you will never hear about the apparition at Knock being debunked. Where would be the sense of debunking it? It contributes a huge amount to the local economy of the west of Ireland. They even have their own international airport, purely on the strength of that projector. The story is known; it has been broadcast on RTE, our national broadcaster. But we will never make a big deal of that - it would cost us too much! It is enough that we know what happened.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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JamesTalbert New user 42 Posts |
Are these arguments common on the Café? I just wanna get help on improving my mentalism and make sure people who watch it have a good time.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Hi James-
Depends on what part of the Café you go to. Politics and religion are supposedly taboo, but there are those who can't resist even though they invariably end up offending somebody. Glad you're interested primarily in mentalism. Me too. (And, yes, I'm THAT Bob!) Best- Bob Cassidy |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Eric Jan Hanussen was Adolf Hitler's Secretly Jewish Clairvoyant.... In my opinion he eclypses every know mentalist in ability and success. He died for the art form and truly blurred the lines of perceived reality. His art was immersed in Politics!!!! To remove it from the context that it was developed in would be a great disservice to budding mentalist students.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
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On 2012-04-16 19:03, mastermindreader wrote: Gee That Bob.... I have trouble with your reality... THERE'S AN ENTIRE GOSPEL SECTION!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I thought the Gospel section was for singing old timey music.
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