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M.Frymus Loyal user Oakville, Ontario, Canada! 293 Posts |
I just came up with a really amazing idea for an illusion.
But, I don't want it to be a plain old looking box with legs. I'd be making it myself, unless if its cheap to make by a builder, but I doubt that.. I am referring to the box design used in David Copperfield's 'Disappearing Girl' The box is not a square box. The left corner on the front and back is raised. Giving it sort of a unique look. I'm looking forward to making a box with the same design. But, the sides and including the top to be made from spandex material. How do I build this? And should the top be made from spandex? Will it look weird since the top has raised corners? Will the spandex look right on it? O should it be a solid piece of metal? - And if it is, how do I bend it to shape to fit properly? If I decide to get someone to build this for me, how much would I be looking at spending? *With a set of deceptive steps that can be easily attached and detached.
MICHAEL FRYMUS
Director of Photography WEBSITE: michaelfrymus.com 289.795.4195 Filmming worldwide Email: dop-michaelfrymus@live.com |
M.Frymus Loyal user Oakville, Ontario, Canada! 293 Posts |
A few additional things to note.
The top of the box, which is the frame, should be taken apart for easy transport.
MICHAEL FRYMUS
Director of Photography WEBSITE: michaelfrymus.com 289.795.4195 Filmming worldwide Email: dop-michaelfrymus@live.com |
tristanmagic Special user 533 Posts |
Not sure what to think about 'taking' Copperfields design....
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts |
It seems from your questions, you should have someone build it. But I am confused: you said you just came up with a great idea for an illusion and then you proceed to say you're using a Copperfield design.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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M.Frymus Loyal user Oakville, Ontario, Canada! 293 Posts |
No. Its just the SHAPE of the box that I like. It has NOTHING to do with his illusion.
Its just the box shape itself that I want to use. Most people use a normal square, others have one side raised a bit higher. But, I like that unique look of one corner on each side raised.
MICHAEL FRYMUS
Director of Photography WEBSITE: michaelfrymus.com 289.795.4195 Filmming worldwide Email: dop-michaelfrymus@live.com |
M.Frymus Loyal user Oakville, Ontario, Canada! 293 Posts |
Okay, what I mean by having it done myself is not technically MYSELF doing it.
I thought about it, but I'm second guessing myself as I wont have the tools and knowledge to do it. However, my girlfriends dad can build anything. He has a massive workshop and has experience building stuff from wood, metal, and glass. So, I would pay him to make it for me, but, Id need to come up with a detailed plan of how it should be built as he doesn't know anything about illusions. So, its either I pay him to do it, or be forced to let a professional illusion builder to do it for me if I have to.
MICHAEL FRYMUS
Director of Photography WEBSITE: michaelfrymus.com 289.795.4195 Filmming worldwide Email: dop-michaelfrymus@live.com |
tristanmagic Special user 533 Posts |
Even 'just the SHAPE of the box' is copyrighted...
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freefallillusion1 Elite user Cincinnati, OH 446 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-04-16 00:57, tristanmagic wrote: I think what he means is simply using an odd-shaped container. If you build an illusion using a box which has one end higher, you are copying no one exept for the roughly 10,697 boxes of this type that have been around for a long time. The only thing about David's box-shape that might be unique is the fact that the front and back are identical, and not mirror images of each other (normally, if you have the right side raised in the front, the left side is raised in the back, thus making for a box that has it's entire right side raised from front to back, if that makes sense). Now, for the actual building of a big illusion, and a fairly involved one at that, what with the steps and all. You mention that your girlfriend's father can build anything. Here's the issue with that- for any illusion to look and function right, it really needs to be built by someone who has experience building magic. As an example, I have spent my entire life studying what makes a stage illusion work for an audience. I'm a builder myself, and while my house building skills are nowhere near Bob Villa, I guarantee that I can build a better stage illusion than Bob on his best day, and that's even if you give him the most detailed plans in the world. As amazing as Bob is, odds are he simply doesn't have the understanding of what needs to go into an illusion, and there are many dos and don'ts. Illusion building requires not only carpentry skills, but a knowledge of details that simply couldn't be contained in any set of plans. So, if you want to have an awesome set of kitchen cabinets built, go to a cabinet maker. But- if you want an illusion, there's really no option but to go to someone who knows what they're doing in that area. |
MickNZ Special user Auckland, New Zealand 576 Posts |
Here's the box in question, I remember at the time thinking it was a cool design.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgDEgigDz6w |
M.Frymus Loyal user Oakville, Ontario, Canada! 293 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-04-16 00:57, tristanmagic wrote: LOL! You cant copyright the shape of a box. Quote:
On 2012-04-16 01:58, MickNZ wrote: Yes, that's the one. Maybe I should have posted it earlier. Quote:
On 2012-04-16 01:51, freefallillusion1 wrote: Yup. That's what I mean, and want. Quote:
On 2012-04-16 01:51, freefallillusion1 wrote: Yes, but people make illusions themselves all the time. And get people with better building skills to make it for them, to look more professional. Its not like Im attempting to make some massive, super difficult illusion. Its just a base with legs, a box frame that'll come apart, front/sides/top panels, and deceptive stairs. If I simply had the money to get this built by a professional, I would. But, I don't. And its not too overly complicated to get someone with carpentry/metal/welding skills to build it for me for a lower rate. I know things will be difficult, but that's why I can always help. Heck, I could do it myself probably if I had the tools. It would take me a LONG time. And wouldn't look as good, but it would be do-able. I mainly need help on: - The construction of the frame; - How to make the frame attach and detach from the base for travel. - Deceptive steps & base attachment; - Like, where can I get plans to making a base with small steps? Not ones too tall. How to make the steps & know how it attaches to the base. And how the base works with the steps. - Top plate; - How to get the piece bent to shape and fit perfectly.
MICHAEL FRYMUS
Director of Photography WEBSITE: michaelfrymus.com 289.795.4195 Filmming worldwide Email: dop-michaelfrymus@live.com |
tristanmagic Special user 533 Posts |
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LOL! You cant copyright the shape of a box. Of course you can! - I quess you never heard about design copyright? Look up Steinmeyers Origami Patent for example, he patented the shape of the illusion, not the methode as it would exposed the workings of this illusion.... |
charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
It does seem like you are a ways off from successfully completing your project. Stairs are discussed in Illusionworks - both the books, as well as the video's/DVD's. I am sure there are additional sources, but I would recommend you obtain as much background and expertise as possible. Based upon the questions you are asking, it seems you are in over your head. I do wish you the best and hope you prove me wrong.
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M.Frymus Loyal user Oakville, Ontario, Canada! 293 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-04-16 18:12, charliecheckers wrote: And surely I will ...eventually.... Probably Depends on the complexity and if I devide to build this or my other illusion I'm also working on. And thanks for the books/dvd.
MICHAEL FRYMUS
Director of Photography WEBSITE: michaelfrymus.com 289.795.4195 Filmming worldwide Email: dop-michaelfrymus@live.com |
patrick1515 Regular user 142 Posts |
No one can copyright or patent a geometric shape. What Steinmeyer submitted for his design patent, was the unique way three design elements worked together (box, base and mirror) forming an artistic design. M. Frymus merely admired the unique shape of Copperfields box, he had no intent to rip off the illusion, rather he clearly stated that he wished to build an illusion using a different method, but incorporate a similar geometric shape.
He was asking for advice on how to construct a box and instead got unfairly placed in a position defending his intentions. |
M.Frymus Loyal user Oakville, Ontario, Canada! 293 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-04-18 15:09, patrick1515 wrote: Exactly. How to make it, have it disassemble easily for transport, how to have that top piece bent, and a general Base & steps instructions... but I believe I already got the base idea with the steps as mentioned in a few posts above.
MICHAEL FRYMUS
Director of Photography WEBSITE: michaelfrymus.com 289.795.4195 Filmming worldwide Email: dop-michaelfrymus@live.com |
M.Frymus Loyal user Oakville, Ontario, Canada! 293 Posts |
Any help on making this box?
I once worked with an illusionist and got to see some stuff of how he made his illusions. From what I remember, the frame was assembled with a whole bunch of R-clips for quick and easy assembly/disassembly.
MICHAEL FRYMUS
Director of Photography WEBSITE: michaelfrymus.com 289.795.4195 Filmming worldwide Email: dop-michaelfrymus@live.com |
freefallillusion1 Elite user Cincinnati, OH 446 Posts |
Honestly, it's not as simple as saying "attach part A to part B and use this method". There are a million nuances to creating part A and B. You have several options, and many options within those options. Please, don't think that no one here is willing to help- it's just that to answer your question thoroughly would require a whole new thread on the Café, complete with a special hints and tips section! So, if you've never built an illusion before (and want do it right), I suggest you get Paul Osborne's first four books, Dick Gustafson's book on illusions, Rand Woodbury's books and first three videos, and there's also Gerry Frenette's new course on illusion building. Specifically, for the base and steps you mention, Rand Woodbury's first video is the one you want. Now, I could tell you to simply "cut the box frames from plywood and spray paint them, and you're all set", but there's way more to it than that. For instance, do you even know what dimensions you want this box to be? Guessing is not a good way to go. That's the formula that way too many people follow, and what you'll end up with is a bulky, heavy (or maybe rickety) non-deceptive contraption that should not be in your show. Remember, illusion building is a skill set all it's own and cabinet makers are not magicians. Even if someone gave you step by step instructions on how to build this, it wouldn't work because it would be impossible to cover every little detail, and you need to know what to do when those details arise- and with a prop like this, there will be many. So, my advice is the same- get a really good background on how illusions are built, and you'll know exactly what to do. Either that, or hire a professional illusion builder to create what you want. Those are the only two ways to go unless you want to end up with a really inferior result, and you don't. The good news is that anyone can do it. Good luck !
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts |
I agree; you can't copyright the shape of a box.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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john wills Special user 939 Posts |
Frymus,
A good illusion is not assembled with " a bunch of R-clips", because of vibrations. A good illusion is STURDY, sometimes in two or three pieces for easy transport. Building good steps is bit more then making a box with some stripes on it. Even some professional builders have problems building a deceptive step..... Performing with the steps is TIMING and/by misdirection ! |
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