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Bradley Morgan Special user 702 Posts |
Hey everyone,
How many of you do rollover aces? I just love the idea of the effect, and want to get the book to learn it. What do you think about this effect? Thanks Brad
"I do not know with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Einstein
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Learned it when first published. cute. it suggested more ideas than it provided usful performing material.
the few time I actually performed it for PEOPLE, did not get a magical reaction. Got a CLEVER reaction.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Cameron Roat Special user Michigan 728 Posts |
I've done the version in The Complete Works of Derek Dingle, Kaufman, p. 148. Not sure if it's the original or not.
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therntier Special user 681 Posts |
It is an effect that shows great skill with cards more than magic. It probably does play very well for spectators. I think the version in Chris Kenner's book is better, which is similar to flush brush by Doug Conn. It's a prettier way of displaying the royal flushes.
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nycmagic New user New York, NY 54 Posts |
I think it's a fabulous magic trick. I consider Michael Ammar's presentation to be the best and don't see how it can be topped. So I won't do it knowing that someone out there can do it better than me.
Jeremy |
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Bradley Morgan Special user 702 Posts |
Which way does Michael Ammar do it?
I think you are going to have a tuff time in magic if you are going to have that philosophy Jeremy. No matter what you do, there will always be someone better than you out there doing the same magic you do, unless you only do stuff you have created and thought of right from scratch. Thanks for all the thought here. Best Brad
"I do not know with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Einstein
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Euan Inner circle 1041 Posts |
"unless you only do stuff you have created and thought of right from scratch."
Which is the way it should be, otherwise what you are doing cannot in anyway be considered artful, you may do it very well.. But a copy is always going to be just that, a copy. Go read Our Magic --Euan |
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Larry Barnowsky Inner circle Cooperstown, NY where bats are made from 4770 Posts |
Rollover Aces shows great skill and great magic. I've always had very strong positive reactions from the audience when doing it. It's somewaht like Triumph but instead of a selected card, the 4 aces are places in different parts of the deck and face up and face down shuffles are done resulting in finally the entire deck righted except for the aces, and under the aces are the matching royal flushes. The Rollover display is what really makes the trick special. The face up aces just roll out of the deck in a startling fashion.
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Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
"unless you only do stuff you have created and thought of right from scratch."
"Which is the way it should be, otherwise what you are doing cannot in anyway be considered artful, you may do it very well.. But a copy is always going to be just that, a copy." To Euan, I agree, but not entirely. The best situation is to perform magic effects which you have created. But the truth is that even most professionals don't do that exclusively. Doug Henning had a hell of a career and was, in fact, quite creative. But the real backbone of virtually every show he did was three effects from others: Vernon's Routine for the Linking Rings, Gene Anderson's Version of the Torn and Restored Newspaper, and the Substitution Trunk which goes back so far that no one is sure who the originator was. (Certainly Houdini popularized it, but he was NOT the first to do it.) It's kind of like music. Many performers write their own songs and sing only their own music. Others write songs, but sing both their songs and the songs of others. But some just sing songs written by others. Frank Sinatra fell into that last category. And his musical career was not only highly successful for him, but it brought much joy to millions. I think it's important for magicians to do good magic. Certainly it's best if they've created it, but it's not necessary. Nor does it mean it's not "artful." It's just that it's a performing art, not an inventive one. Dennis Loomis http://www.loomismagic.com
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
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ixnay66 Inner circle Denver 1525 Posts |
I was thinking the same thing. Are you a copy-cat because you play Tchaikovsky or Mozart? I don't think so.
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Bradley Morgan Special user 702 Posts |
You can do the same trick for someone but with your own stile and presentation. It would be hard to do magic if you had to come up with everything. Not everything I come up with is good. So take something and make it yours.
My friend did it for me a few days ago and it just looks so awesome. I do like the way Michael does it, it is so fast though. Best Brad
"I do not know with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Einstein
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Paul Sherman Inner circle Arlington, VA 1511 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-10-03 19:03, Euan wrote: Well, that definitely takes the pressure off. Using that rationale, Ricky Jay's not an artist. After all, I've seen him perform both MacDonald’s Aces (using hundred year old patter...the gall!) AND a Triumph routine. I guess that makes One-Armed MacDonald the artist because...oh wait, Hofzinser's work with gaffed cards predates him, nevermind. But certainly Vernon is an artist, after all, he's the one who came up with Triumph....but then again, he performed a LOT of other peoples' material, so I guess he wasn't an artist either. Funny how a guy who devoted his entire life to elevating magic to the status of the "higher" arts was, by this analysis, a hack. So if that's the way it works, I'm satisfied to be a hack, as long as I can be a talented hack. Paul
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase
some youtube videos |
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markyeager Regular user 191 Posts |
We all first copy others performances to learn an effect. Mike Ammar's concept brought this effect to a higher level. Doing it on the Tonight Show, raised it to even higher levels. I consider myself a skilled card man. I would never even try it on Network TV.
Bravo, Michael for thinking " How to make it better." It's always more forfilling to perform our own ideas. The challenge to myself is to learn everything possible about a effect. Perform it first as taught. Using the best ideas, from every source. My ethics are that, I will do others routines or lines without their permission. Most of the time, If I ask they give me permission. I then try to change the wording to my own style. Many of my lines come from vaudville, they are dated but easy to understand
It's Fun to be Fooled
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Larry Barnowsky Inner circle Cooperstown, NY where bats are made from 4770 Posts |
I never saw Ammar's performance of Rollover Aces. What was the major difference or improvement? My first exposure to Rollover Aces was watching Derek Dingle perform it. That's what turned me on to that effect. He was masterful at it.
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jhostler Loyal user 278 Posts |
Ammar beautifully justifies the multiple shuffles by having the audience time him by stopwatch. The plot: He'll shuffle the aces into the deck X times, shuffling face-up into face-down, and find the aces all within XX seconds (I believe 60). The piece is positioned as a presentation of skill with two kickers:
1) The performer just finishes his last shuffle as time runs out - appears to have failed. However, the aces are revealed as "found" upon rolling the deck (which itself justifies the roll). 2) The royal flush kicker DESTROYS lay audiences. If you fail in this regard, you've simply not done your job! In sum, this is positioned as a skill demo that requires skills of magical proportions. Cheers, John |
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Bradley Morgan Special user 702 Posts |
He had to find the aces in 30 seconds. He had a guy timing him, while Michael lost the aces and shuffled the deck. Michael stopped him at 26 seconds into the shuffles trying to find the aces, and said that the guy timing him did not have a chance to see what he was doing. So he would use the last four second to find the aces, that is when he did the last roll out. Each roll of the deck counted for a second leaving him with four aces in 30 seconds. But he not only found the four aces but a Royal flush under each one, and the deck that was shuffled face up into face down, is now all the same way.
I think the major difference is being timed. But then I have not had a chance to see the original version of the trick. It is almost like Play it straight Triumph.I just like the look to this trick. Best Brad
"I do not know with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Einstein
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
The roll over shuffle is, I believe, a Ron Ferris idea. The Roll Over Aces plot (4 ace prodction, flushes production, Triumph) is Derek Dingle's original concept.
Ammar's contribution is the idea of the challenge presentation and the four second roll out. This makes it seem like he just barely made it until it's revealed that the reason he almost missed is that he sorted out the remaining 48 cards and assembled the flushes. A subtile convincer that will make 'em argue about it later? When you're setting the flushs make one of them out of sequence so that it runs Ace, ten, king, queen, jack |
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gkfreed Special user 532 Posts |
Please check Randy Wakeman's handling of this effect. It is a much easier handling and eliminates the riffle shuffle sequence that looks poor whether Dingle or Ammar is performing it.
My understanding is that Ammar added only the "timed" sequence at the end of Dingle's routine. He did it on the Tonite Show and was quite impressive. |
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chrismatt Special user Why would you read any of my 978 Posts |
Think about using Rollover Aces as the climax to a routine in which the Aces keep turning face up in a face down deck. How about using tricks like L. Jennings' "Instant Aces" and "Royal Triumph," F. Cyprian's "Super Shuffle Four Ace Trick," and any other type of 4-card Triumph, with or without a Zarrow Shuffle? Next, use tricks like Daryl's "Volte-Face" and stand-alone "Twisting the Aces" tricks to allow you to switch the rest of the deck for the stacked deck for your "Rollover Aces" finale.
Details make perfection, but perfection is no detail.
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Bradley Morgan Special user 702 Posts |
I know he did it in one of the Worlds Greatest Magics, which one was it?
Thanks Brad
"I do not know with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Einstein
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