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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts 
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Up to the performer, Buddy. I'm sure it all looks like "tricks and puzzles" when you do it. Please speak for yourself.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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pabloinus Inner circle 1682 Posts
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I am with Harry, magic does not exist as such, therefore any adult can see any magic trick as a puzzle to be discovered, or sit relax and enjoy the moment of make believe. Acting has a lot to do on how the trick is perceived.
I don't believe card magic is different to any other type of magic in that aspect, I do agree that there are so much material that some tricks lack the "magical moment" . |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts
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In my act, I openly admit that I’m using a specially gimmicked, high technology deck. Here’s what happens in my card set:
1. A selected card finds itself by visibly crawling out of the deck, due to the nanomotors that have been machined into the cards. 2. The faces and backs of a few cards change color in a mysterious way, as if the cards were like litmus paper. 3. Using the deck’s built in search engine, a spectator finds all four Aces in an impossible manner. 4. The black Aces are used to make a cardboard electroencephalogram. The two black Aces are placed face up in the middle of the pack. The spectator thinks of a card that then materializes between the two black Aces. 5. The spectator signs the thought of card. The deck has a built in GPS unit. Even when the signed card is lost, it repeatedly finds its way back to the top of the deck, the last time under test conditions. 6. After the spectator hits the ‘Go Home’ button on the GPS, the signed selected card is found in its home, a sealed envelope in a zippered compartment of my wallet. 7. The signed card, envelope, deck, and box are given to the spectator as a souvenir. But there’s not a lot of magic going on, per se. It’s just a little bit of sophisticated technology. 
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-05-20 09:05, Brainbu$ter wrote: I've heard that many times before and I don't think it's very good logic. If you could really do magic, would you really go around taking money for levitating a dollar bill? Would you limit yourself to displaying your powers to small groups by cutting a rope in half and restoring it? Would you gather your friends around and stick a needle through your arm? OR... would you cure cancer, eliminate nuclear weapons, solve the global warning crisis, corner the stock market? The only time you'd actually do something small is when it's convenient: You'd produce money when you needed it. Not as a demonstration. You're at a table and someone is missing their fork-- BAM you produce a fork. See? This is something Mike Weber was lecturing on in the 90's. Very, very few effects in magic qualify as something you'd do "if you could do real magic". In fact, if you want to only do the things you'd do if you could do real magic, then you've restricted yourself to doing maybe 12 tricks under such specific circumstances that you might as well give up. Let me finish by this: If you could do real magic and wanted to prove your powers, would you pull silver dollars from the air until a bucket was full? OR would you heal every AIDS patient in the world? Now having said that, there is a case in which this idea could work--- you only have a SPECIFIC power. Mentalism for example. Telekinetics. I believe there's a fellow named Morgan Streibler who specializes in bending/morphing steel. Now by being specific like that, then you've overcome the limitations that universal powers would put you under. Hope that makes sense. SEY |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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This is going to be a completely useless response, but I'm having fun imagining so...
In regards to healing cancer or curing AIDS with magic, I think that depends on whether the hypothetical "we" had some sort of personality disorder wherein they had no interest in something like that. There are a few people out there who would rather make Cadillac SUVs full of beautiful women (or men) appear out of thin air than to concern themselves with curing Cancer. Then they might cure AIDS just so that they don't catch it. Like I said, useless.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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If I remember right Nate Lepzig opened his vaudeville act with "Thimbles" and then did cards. This was in the Vernon on Lepzig book.
I open with the chop dice cup - but opening with card magic is not bad. I used to do a set of just card magic as a close up set for years. However I feel that if it is a "performance" of card magic it should be entertaining to the audience.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts
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If I were to wake up tomorrow possessing REAL magical powers, the primary objective would be simple: I would hide the fact that I have magical powers. Otherwise, there would be nearly endless situations that would cause me sorrow.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts
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The old joke comes to mind, about the performer who did three basic tricks in his acg - the milk pitcher, dancing cane, color-changing handkerchief.
One night, the Lord appeared before him, touched his shoulder, and said, "From here on in you will be a real magician, youj will be able to do real magic!" So, at his next appearance, he did --- the milk pitcher, dancing cane and the color-changing handkerchief!
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-05-20 14:54, critter wrote: Hmmm... not so sure, because it's an all or nothing response. Once someone is sure you can really do magic, then you'll never be able to go out of the house again. You'd be a hermit or live a life in which every government in the world would try and capture you. Life would be a nightmare. SEY |
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FrenchDrop Inner circle I can name that tune in 1647 Posts
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If you woke up one day with real magic powers...would it ruin your enjoyment of learning and performing pretend magic?
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-05-20 16:47, Steven Youell wrote: We'd probably have to know what the limits of that power are. If the powers are pretty extensive then fending those people off could be a fairly easy prospect.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Billy-one Inner circle IOWA 1028 Posts
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Saying "the cons of card magic" is not unlike saying "the cons of water paint".
This is not an original thought but the tricks and the tools used in the tricks are just vehicles for the performer to interact and entertain an audience. A stand up comedian has only his voice, experiences, and talent. "I love listening him play the guitar, but ***....he should play the drums and sing as well" Billy |
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pabloinus Inner circle 1682 Posts
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I am with Harry, magic does not exist as such, therefore any adult can see any magic trick as a puzzle to be discovered, or sit relax and enjoy the moment of make believe. Acting has a lot to do on how the trick is perceived.
I don't believe card magic is different to any other type of magic in that aspect, I do agree that there are so much material that some tricks lack the "magical moment" . |
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Brainbu$ter Veteran user Indianapolis, IN 326 Posts
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In the Complete Works of Derek Dingle (incidentally, Harry Lorayne wrote Dingle's first book, Dingle's Deceptions), I read that he was performing for Barbara Walters.
(Derek Dingle's Ambitious Card was described by Dai Vernon in Revelations as consisting of three passes. That's it. That's the impression I got. His pass a deck of cards like a normal person can pass chicken soup, (sorry).
After the show, Barbara said, "The card tricks I can understand, but when you read read my mind!" When she said, "you read my mind!" she was referring to that fan trick he did with the deck of cards. Don't everyone bite my neck because this story seems to confirm both sides. My theory is, when card magic is -visual and in your face (which is so fashionable these days), it's got shock value and evokes screams, but in the end is interpreted as "card tricks I can understand." Manipulation. Sleight of hand. Similar to an optical illusion on steroids. This is when cards are changed, transposed, torn, burnt, restored, flourished, etc. but when card magic is -the opposite (sorry...it's late and having trouble articulating this) The Derek Dingle example suffices. We can make people believe we discerned what card they were "merely thinking of." Many people really believe that when presented well. Derek Dingle, when he did that trick. Reserved his power and simply informed her that he knew which card she was thinking of. He didn't make her chosen card appear inside a zippered wallet. Both examples depended on a deck of cards. I may be straying from the original topic now, but does this concept have a name? Another example. Can you remember seeing Ammar change a card, a color change where he smoothly waves his hand over the deck and the card changes? That is beautiful. On the other hand, Malini (as described by Vernon), with arms outstretched (not insignificant), displayed the deck. He brought his hand above it. Slowly lowered it. Waited a moment. Then lifted his hand, to a gasping crowd. It was not as visually shocking, but their IMAGINATIONS ran with it further. |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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How else would a layperson refer to the trick besides a "mind reading trick"?
When someone says to a magician "I can't believe you sawed that lady in half!", does that prove they actually think you cut a human in half and then put the human back together? Do you seriously believe that if Walters thought she had someone who could actually read her mind that she wouldn't be overwhelmed with the fact that she had the news story of the century? Do you think when they booked Derek Dingle, they thought he was ANYTHING besides a magician who does tricks? Do you seriously believe that that one sentence proves she believed someone actually had the powers to be privy to her actual thoughts? Really? If someone says it's raining cats and dogs, do you think that proves they seriously believe actual cats and dogs are falling from the sky? SEY |
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Adam1975 Special user UK 900 Posts
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Quote:
If someone says it's raining cats and dogs, do you think that proves they seriously believe actual cats and dogs are falling from the sky? If that's the case, careful you don't step in a poodle
Ive upped my standards.Now,up yours!
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Engali Elite user 435 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-05-20 22:34, Brainbu$ter wrote: I think the tendency for many more developing (card) magicians to cross over, either partially or fully, into mentalism than vice versa is quite telling. What conclusions can be drawn from this I leave to you. |
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Brainbu$ter Veteran user Indianapolis, IN 326 Posts
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Steven Youell,
My answer is a resounding YES (except to your absurd straw man portrayal of my belief that someone saying, "You read my mind," and someone saying, "It's raining cats and dogs" are in the same category. Did you watch David Blaine, Street Magic? His first special. After he does the card thru window, what was the reaction of the spectator? "When he read my mind, that was real, but..." How many times do you need to hear this from spectators before you listen to them? They are telling you that when you perform effects that look like magic, they don't believe in it, but when you perform an effect that looks like mindreading, they often believe in it. You can use the same method for both. Use a DL to make their card jump from the middle to the top of the deck. That shocks them, but that goes into category one. Then do a DL as a peek, and present it well as mindreading, and they REALLY believe (if not mindreading) that you influenced them somehow, or picked up their ideomotor cues, but NOT that it was a mechanical trick. Or, they believe you read their mind. So yes. Walters believed he read her mind. I'm not sure how you can perform magic for any length of time without encountering spectators who believe with all their heart it's real. I once did the sponge bunnies for a man, and he BELIEVED it was real. He asked me questions pertaining to religion. Now, you're telling me that you can't believe that no spectator can believe in genuine mindreading? This man, an accomplished violinist, believed I had superpowers after I did the sponge bunnies. That is rare, I admit, but I am astonished as to how little faith you put into a spectators faith in magic/mentalism performed well. |
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cirrus Inner circle his minions made 1751 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-05-22 12:07, Brainbu$ter wrote: The answer is written in Strong magic. Most performers don't listen to the spectator. |
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Maestro Special user 802 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-05-20 16:45, Harry Lorayne wrote: that's pretty funny
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Posted: May 20, 2012 03:01 pm 
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