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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Schneider Pop Up Move (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Denis Bastible
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I purchased Al Schneider Magic, which I think is a wonderful book full of good stuff. Quite a few of the routines rely heavily upon the Pop Up Move, which I started to practice. I then read Jamie Swiss' review of the book which was very positive, but basically opined that the Pop Up Move was not a normal or "regular" way to handle a coin. I saw Al performing a routine with the Pop Up Move on Youtube, and it looked real nice but I agree it would not be the way one would simply place a coin in the other hand. It is a very good means to do a coins across, but I wonder if anyone who uses the Pop Up has had any audience problems or questions about why the coins were being handled that way. Is there another less odd means to accomplish the same thing?
Jonathan Townsend
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The pop up move has been with us since the three ball routine that made it into the Vernon Book of Magic - some time ago.

Acting as if what you are doing is odd and unmotivated can bring awkward moments to your magic.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Denis Bastible
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Very true. The move does not look odd in Schneider's hands. I just became concerned about putting a good amount of time into it after reading the Swiss opinion. Thanks.
Michael Rubinstein
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Its not just about the move. its how you sell it. Most magic moves are not as natural as the moves we do in real life (ie, the French Drop). However, if you can justify the position to your audience, it goes over as totally normal. In the case of the pop up move, you are trying to be as fair as possible to show the coin really going into the fist. It LOOKS fair, so the audience doesn't question that no one puts a coin into the hand like that. And ultimately, we want the audience to be convinced that all that we do is fair.
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And if anyone (USA ONLY) needs some of the coin stuff used in the book, shoot me an email at rubinsteindvm@aol.com as I have some limited supplies of coins and props used in the book.
ralphs007
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Quote:
On 2012-05-06 21:09, Denis Bastible wrote:
Very true. The move does not look odd in Schneider's hands. I just became concerned about putting a good amount of time into it after reading the Swiss opinion. Thanks.

Hi
I hate when that happens. You put in some time with an effect and then someone who's opinion you respect plants a seed of doubt in your mind. Now you never feel the same way about the move or effect. It just happened to me a couple of weeks ago with an effect I'm working on. The effect was trashed on a website review I watched.
I just said the hell with their opinion. I like the effect enough to learn it I'm not dropping it. If you like how this move looks then it's probably just fine.
hth
Ralph
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him".
James D. Miles
warren
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As already said the pop up move is a great move when used in the correct context.
funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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It is often (always) advisable to have a "reason for the magic," and instead of a wand or special word -- why not strange hand position. I have used the Pop-up Sleight with coins, nuts, coffee creamers, etc. for years and offer that placing the object just so is essential for the magic to happen.

I once even explained how elfs do Contact Juggling by placing nuts on various parts of their bodies and flipping them to others. The "Elf Grab" is part of a game in which a nut is placed on top of the fist and another elf tried to grab it before it is swollowed by the hand. Then you can play "did he get it ot not" alterately using the Pop-Up Move get "one ahead" for various effects.

The point is that whenever a Move seems "other than natural," establish a Pattern of Performance (PoP) in ehcih it is normal.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Erdnase27
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Performed his coins across dozens of times. I do sometimes switch methods for each coin (muscle pass, pop up move etc), but the move itself has not been questioned by any audience.
Hope that helps.
"He must be content to rank with the common herd." - S.W. Erdnase
harris
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Harris Deutsch
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I have been using this move for more than 25 years. People haven't asked me about it "yet". Some, do ask me for my business card.

The name of my magic (since about 79) has been "Nearly Normal Magic".

For your very own Nearly Normal Right to Play certificate write me at
Harris.deutsch@leesummit.k12.mo.us


Harris
some others ask me to play that harmonica song with your nose again
Which "some others", might think was not normal
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
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David Neighbors
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Yea I have thought about that! I Say " Look I Will be as fair as I can! I will Place the coins one at a time into the top of my fist and let them sink in with just one hand. That way I can't Cheat ! Smile " Works for me!
David Neighbors



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BrianMillerMagic
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Jay Sankey has some nice comments on motivating the Pop Up Move on various projects. Specifically I remember him talking about it on Front Row Sankey and Anytime, Anywhere. He describes having a love-hate relationship with the move, because:

"On one hand, the Pop Up Move is real direct. On the other hand, it has a kind of unnatural feeling, placing the coin on top of the fist before it goes in. On the other hand - that'd be three hands for those of you who are counting - there is some really cool magic you can do with it."

He basically talks about making sure your routine, be it coins, sponge balls, or something else, has a motivation for putting the object on top of the fist before it goes in.
Mipple
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This is one move that has always bothered me when used directly without any "justifying" context - it simply doesn't seem natural to me. That said, it certainly looks very fair so it's a case of something where I suspect a change might improve things slightly rather than a real problem. In fact, even this may be me overthinking things so others may well not perceive it that way.

I haven't come up with a way to make it fit 'naturally' into a traditional coins across routine (I haven't given it any thought) but I'm sure it's possible. One example of where I think it fits the premise perfectly, though, is in John Carney's "The Thirteenth Victim" - in the context of loading bullets into a fist it flows very naturally.

Mark
warren
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The only routine I actually use the move in is Daryl's Elbow, Knee and Neck although I did eliminate it from the beginning of the routine so that the actual move is only used once but I've never been called on it.

However I think David Neighbors answer is very good infact I'm tempted to use the move more now as it makes it seem as if your only using that method to make things as fare as you can whilst cheating Smile
Denis Bastible
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These comments have been very helpful and much appreciated. I will continue to practice it.
Atom3339
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Also, Mr. Neighbors makes it look easy.
TH

Occupy Your Dream
David Neighbors
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Thanks Atom,
But It's not really Hard unless you are doing a Mult. Pop-up's ! Smile
David Neighbors



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mystre71
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Quote:
On 2012-05-07 13:24, Mipple wrote:
This is one move that has always bothered me when used directly without any "justifying" context - it simply doesn't seem natural to me. That said, it certainly looks very fair so it's a case of something where I suspect a change might improve things slightly rather than a real problem. In fact, even this may be me overthinking things so others may well not perceive it that way.

I haven't come up with a way to make it fit 'naturally' into a traditional coins across routine (I haven't given it any thought) but I'm sure it's possible. One example of where I think it fits the premise perfectly, though, is in John Carney's "The Thirteenth Victim" - in the context of loading bullets into a fist it flows very naturally.

Mark


Hi Mark, Do you use a ROV vanish? This is an unnatural way to place a coin in the hand. But, then again what is a natural way for a magician to handle coins ? Laymen expect to see magi handle their props in a different than normal manner. They wanta see coin rolls, card spreads, etc. I think magicians question these things because sometimes they confuse unnatural with unmotivated moves.
Walk around coin box work check it out here https://www.magicalmystries.com/products
J-Mac
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Almost every time we move a coin from one hand to another it isn't exactly "natural". That is if you mean natural as in the same way you always move coins. Most people never have a need to move a coin or coins from hand to hand. But, hey: we're rarely acting natural in magic!

Jim
harris
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Harris Deutsch
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..and if you throw in a c/s into the move...oh what fun....


Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
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David Neighbors
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Or A Solid C.S.B. Smile Think Sandy! Smile
David Neighbors



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