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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts 
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Quote:
On 2012-05-30 09:01, BigSmile wrote: never even thought of it as a 'do as I do' routine, I just thought it was a 'do whatever you want' and I will show you I knew it routine, interesting
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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BigSmile Veteran user 367 Posts
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If you perform the ungimmicked version it is (in my opinion) a DO AS I DO routine:
You ask the spectator to turn around the card behind the back - and you do the same. You ask the spectator to find the turned over card in the pack - and you do the same. You ask the spectator to turn around the card - and you do the same. Finally they match. For example: Spectator has 7 of Clubs - you have 7 of Spades. |
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Olympic Adam Inner circle 1259 Posts
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I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I never thought of it that way, coming from a mentalism point of view it appears to me to be more of a:
pick any card you want and turn it over, they are free, look through my half, I don't touch so they are free, then they can look through their own deck, they are free I do this with 2 decks to achieve a similar effect to the Derren Brown one with Jonathon Ross and his wife Jane Goldman, keeping freedom in my mind rather than a set of instructions
Protection for mind readers and mentalists: http://tricksofthemind.com
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enigmagik32 Regular user 117 Posts
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Well I ve kept a low profile one the past couple of weeks and have been asked set the record straight on a few things. the routine Duel Edge is mine from the start to the finish of the routine based on a move by Rus Andrews from his duel Manuscript.
On the 15th february rus andrews phoned me and we got talking about his routine Duel which I had heard about from other magicians I liked it. But told Rus my version of the 2 odd backed cards and the blank deck finish, he liked it a lot and was at the time in talks with RSVP in doing a DVD and asked if he could use my variation along side other routines for inclusion In a MULTIPLE effect DVD I said yes would be fine but Credit me on the DVD.. On the 16th of Feb he sent me his original Duel manuscript which had no mention of a blank deck.. Fast forward to May and I was Quite dismayed to find out that Rus Andrews had released Dual Edge as a stand alone effect along side his original impromptu version the only changes he seemed to have made was the blackjack hand… My original had the two cards mis-matching which hit the spectator on more of an emotional level, with everything going full circle at the end and the kicker of a blank deck (My thinking of this was a Dean Dill Blizzard type routine without having to switch out the deck) Crediting Well Yes there is Crediting on the DVD but I feel it had been cleverly hidden away to deceive the purchaser. Its a one screen hit on the DVD and yes my name is on there but with no mention of which part (all)of the routine was mine… I have no malice towards Rus andrews but just wanted to set the record straight as I've always been open in sharing my magic and theories to other magicians but feel I have been ripped off time and time again,this is why I was asked to do the Unknown DVD as a lot of routines were getting used by the professionals some using without my permission. All the best Mark Bendell (The Unknown) |
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Keith Atkinson Regular user Wigan, UK 196 Posts
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WOW. I bought this on pre release. I had been following the link on here relating to this before I bought it,but decided to do so.
I decided against buying another effect due to a similar thread, prefering to donate to charity, after watching a link to a similar effect on here. I bought The Unknown, and use quite a few effects from the DVD. I only bought it initially for The Bag For Lifr routine,but realised that Mark had some really good workable effects, that I now use on a regular basis. Sorry to hear this. Keith.
Pick A Card, Any Card.
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benmagic1 Regular user London 182 Posts
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Oh dear I did not know it was your trick Mark, why didn't any one mention this above and it wasn't mentioned on the dvd ?
Ben
Sussex/Kent/Surrey Wedding Photographer and Magician. Ben's Photography
Surrey/Sussex/Kent Magician |
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enigmagik32 Regular user 117 Posts
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Hi Ben and Keith
I am disappointed that this has been released as a single trick DVD with MY idea as the main version, with no mention of this on the DVD. Surely this isn't right. Once again one of my ideas is making money for other people and I'm the one who's losing out financially. Thanks for your support Mark Bendell (The Unknown) |
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts
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Mark, Having the idea for different coloured backs hardly makes it your routine. If I have an idea to do bag4life with both coins penetrating the bag, does that mean it's my routine 'from start to finish' as you say? obviously not. and besides that, you gave permission to use your small addition and got a credit as requested.
Best Sean |
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Keith Atkinson Regular user Wigan, UK 196 Posts
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I go with Mark on this one.
Keith.
Pick A Card, Any Card.
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benmagic1 Regular user London 182 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-06-06 17:04, Sean Giles wrote: Mark said it was his idea for duel edge, the odd cards and the blank deck, isn't it this that is selling this trick Sean ? Should it be mentioned that this is Mark's idea in the selling of this trick, I had no idea that it was Mark's idea, it's not mentioned anywhere on the dvd or the cover ? Isn't this the same case as Jamie Allens trick that is being sold as numbers, he gave permissin for it to be used in a ebook but not to feature on a single trick dvd ! Ben
Sussex/Kent/Surrey Wedding Photographer and Magician. Ben's Photography
Surrey/Sussex/Kent Magician |
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enigmagik32 Regular user 117 Posts
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[quote]On 2012-06-06 17:04, Sean Giles wrote:
Mark, Having the idea for different coloured backs hardly makes it your routine. If I have an idea to do bag4life with both coins penetrating the bag, does that mean it's my routine 'from start to finish' as you say? obviously not. and besides that, you gave permission to use your small addition and got a credit as requested. Best Sean [/quote Hi Sean the Routine/routining for Dual Edge is mine along with the blank deck finish Dual the impromptu version is Rus andrews,and Yes I gave rus permission to use it but not on a single trick Dvd as stated above, and since bagged 4 life has come out there are different versions out there some impromptu and thought afterwards why didn't I think of that best Mark |
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Christopher Congreave Veteran user U.K 377 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-06-06 17:04, Sean Giles wrote: Sean, I saw Rus original routine and basically what Mark did was change the whole thing and make it worthy of a single DVD trick, your analogy of bag 4 life is just silly. Rus if you're readin this what say you? p.s I consider both Mark and Rus friends. |
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts
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Maybe the problem was not that it wasn't a multiple effect DVD but more that it wasn't released by RSVP. And who was it that asked you to come and clarify? There more to this than meets the eye and politics in magic is not pretty.
Best Sean |
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benmagic1 Regular user London 182 Posts
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Dani de Ortiz, Marlo, Walter Gibson and lots of other magicians have work on this principle in print, I would say that it was Mark that was the first person to use the combination of this principle, the odd backs and the blank deck to create something new ! I do not get your point about bag 4 life ?
Ben
Sussex/Kent/Surrey Wedding Photographer and Magician. Ben's Photography
Surrey/Sussex/Kent Magician |
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-06-06 17:29, Christopher Congreave wrote: It was supposed to be silly Christopher. That was the point I was making. A phone conversation in which Mark suggests changing the backs does not make it his routine. That is silly, to use your words. |
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benmagic1 Regular user London 182 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-06-06 17:30, Sean Giles wrote: ah so it is about politics then Sean and not about Mark being given due credit.......really ? Ben
Sussex/Kent/Surrey Wedding Photographer and Magician. Ben's Photography
Surrey/Sussex/Kent Magician |
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Christopher Congreave Veteran user U.K 377 Posts
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No, but what is now the main routine on the DVD appears more Marks routine than Rus', I don't want to get into a row over this, but I do feel for Mark as he has been ripped of in the past, a lot, and I also think that he should have been given joint credit on the trick.
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-06-06 17:37, Christopher Congreave wrote: Christopher, Ive just checked and mark bendell is the very first name credited on the DVD Best Sean |
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Christopher Congreave Veteran user U.K 377 Posts
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Yes I know he had a mention, but do you not think that what he added changed the trick, dramatically, and he should have at the very least had his name on the product, and been consulted.
I've spoken to Mark about this and if you know him you will know that he's a really good guy and as he said he's not bitter, but he should have more than a mention on the DVD. |
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enigmagik32 Regular user 117 Posts
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Sean, how do you know what was mentioned during my private phone call with Rus? Please let me explain, it was my idea to change it from a poker or blackjack trick to an emotional one using odd backs, the envelope prediction and the blank back kicker ending, It is these ideas of mine which are the main selling point of this effect, it is these ideas which makes this a commercial DVD. It isn't just the odd backs, it's the whole effect.
This has nothing to do with RSVP Magic, I am nothing to do with that company, I just did one DVD for them. I brought this up because I think it is only fair that credit's due where credit is due, it is my idea that is selling this trick! Yes Sean my name is on a screenshot at the end of the DVD, but as it is my routine and ideas which are the main selling point of this DVD don't you think it only fair that it should have been pointed out on the cover or on the DVD. I have had no proper credits whatsoever, or any financial payment, do you think this is really fair? Well I'm of to bed catch you guys tomorrow PS click on image below with regards to the credit and you'll see what I mean Click here to view attached image. |
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Posted: May 31, 2012 05:10 pm 
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