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Harry Lorayne
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If I'm reading you correctly, that is NOT the Hindu Shuffle. Which, forgive me, but in my hands looks completely natural. Up to the individual, no?
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Brad Burt
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I was wondering about that also. The bottom or receiving hand should be palm up. The top hand which is in movement will be palm down holding it's stock by one end. If the top hand is the R.H. then it will be holding the narrow right ward end. Reverse that if it's the left hand.
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FrenchDrop
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I've believe I've seen video of Harry using both overhand and Hindu shuffles in the same series of shuffles. I don't think it would look particularly suspicious to a lay person; it would just look like the magician's really mixing the hell out of the deck. I think the key is that Harry does the shuffles quickly and smoothly, he transitions quickly and smoothly from one type of shuffle to the other, and he's always talking to the audience and seldom looking at the cards as he shuffles. It doesn't look like he's doing a series of moves; it looks like he's just absent-mindedly fiddling with the cards while he explains something to the audience. The end result is that the audience thinks the deck has been thoroughly randomized and that the magician is almost unaware of having done so.

(Maybe it goes without saying, but I think that's a very important part of doing a convincing shuffle, whether it's overhand or Hindu or a riffle a mix of them: making it look like an afterthought by not appearing to pay much attention to what you're doing. The audience is sure the deck is mixed up now, but that's almost incidental to what the magician was doing: He doesn't say "Okay, now I'm going to shuffle the cards so they're in random order." Making it look that nonchalant is potentially harder to master than the actual moves involved in the shuffle; I know I haven't mastered it yet.)
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
Aus
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To me the hindu shuffle is an invaluable item in the magicians arsenal. When selecting things to learn I take on a diminishing returns perspective in assessing the things I wont to learn which is essentially the question of “What’s the value of the item to me for the cost of learning it?”

For me the slight has a very high value of return since only slight modifications to the basic process can produce a force, display and control as well as the shuffle itself is relatively easy to learn.
I think it would be a mistake discarding it.

Magically

Aus
Harry Lorayne
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At the risk of being accused of plugging my books, I'll plug my book! There's a red-black shuffle I've used for years, based on the Hindu Shuffle, in Special Effects. Might be worth a check. HL.
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djurmann
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Quote:
On 2012-05-18 23:33, Harry Lorayne wrote:
At the risk of being accused of plugging my books, I'll plug my book! There's a red-black shuffle I've used for years, based on the Hindu Shuffle, in Special Effects. Might be worth a check. HL.


LOL
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Harry-

Good to see you on! How does on get "Special Effects"??

Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Harry Lorayne
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Easy, Jim. One sends me $93.20 if in the U.S.A., or $110.20 if out of the U.S.A., and it's done. Autographed only on request. HL.
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Harry Lorayne
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PS: Anyone who'd like a copy of the full-page ad for that book - just send your email address to me - first address listed under this post - and I'll send it along. HL.
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Mr. Mystoffelees
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Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
J-L Sparrow
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Quote:
On 2012-05-12 05:58, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Offhand I can't think of any effects that absolutely require the HS.

Unless I'm mixing up names, I believe The Chicago Opener uses the Hindu Shuffle more than once.

Sure, you could probably re-engineer the trick so that it uses something else, but the Hindu Shuffle does the job quite nicely. An overhand shuffle just doesn't work as well.
Harry Lorayne
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Some people are just so wrong (in my opinion).
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The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On 2012-05-22 14:17, J-L Sparrow wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-05-12 05:58, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Offhand I can't think of any effects that absolutely require the HS.

Unless I'm mixing up names, I believe The Chicago Opener uses the Hindu Shuffle more than once.

Sure, you could probably re-engineer the trick so that it uses something else, but the Hindu Shuffle does the job quite nicely. An overhand shuffle just doesn't work as well.


It uses the Hindu Shuffle, sure, but it doesn't really require it. The trick needs a key card placement and a force. Plenty of substitutes available. The use of the Hindu Shuffle to handle everything is arguably a magician's convenience more than anything.
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J-L Sparrow
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On 2012-05-22 22:15, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
It uses the Hindu Shuffle, sure, but it doesn't really require it. The trick needs a key card placement and a force. Plenty of substitutes available. The use of the Hindu Shuffle to handle everything is arguably a magician's convenience more than anything.

Good point. However, in the Chicago Opener (again, I apologize if I'm using the wrong name) the magician pretends to repeat the trick, when in fact, he/she is just carrying out the second half of the trick. In each half of the trick the magician uses the Hindu Shuffle for different means (as you said, in the first half as a k**-c*** placement and in the second as a f****), but to the spectator it just looks like the trick is being repeated in a very similar way. (Granted, it's not exactly the same way, but that doesn't seem to matter much to the spectator.)

So while you could replace both Hindu Shuffles with substitutes, the "repetition" part of the trick wouldn't make much sense to the spectator, as the trick would look markedly different. That is, unless you replace each Hindu Shuffle with the same maneuver -- one that can accomplish both the k**-c*** placement and the f****.

(And if you do know of such a maneuver, let me know. I'd love to learn it.)

So the Hindu Shuffle, I think, is likely the best choice of shuffle for performing the Chicago Opener, since it accomplishes two different tasks while under the guise of doing just one thing.

Cheers,

-- J-L
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On 2012-05-23 14:39, J-L Sparrow wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-05-22 22:15, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
It uses the Hindu Shuffle, sure, but it doesn't really require it. The trick needs a key card placement and a force. Plenty of substitutes available. The use of the Hindu Shuffle to handle everything is arguably a magician's convenience more than anything.

Good point. However, in the Chicago Opener (again, I apologize if I'm using the wrong name) the magician pretends to repeat the trick, when in fact, he/she is just carrying out the second half of the trick. In each half of the trick the magician uses the Hindu Shuffle for different means (as you said, in the first half as a k**-c*** placement and in the second as a f****), but to the spectator it just looks like the trick is being repeated in a very similar way. (Granted, it's not exactly the same way, but that doesn't seem to matter much to the spectator.)

So while you could replace both Hindu Shuffles with substitutes, the "repetition" part of the trick wouldn't make much sense to the spectator, as the trick would look markedly different. That is, unless you replace each Hindu Shuffle with the same maneuver -- one that can accomplish both the k**-c*** placement and the f****.

(And if you do know of such a maneuver, let me know. I'd love to learn it.)

So the Hindu Shuffle, I think, is likely the best choice of shuffle for performing the Chicago Opener, since it accomplishes two different tasks while under the guise of doing just one thing.

Cheers,

-- J-L


If uniformity of action is the most important thing, you can get even closer to it by having the card selected from a spread both times, and then returned to the deck via shuffle both times. Then you don't have any discrepancy. Frankly, unless the second selection is being made from a distance, having that card arrived at via a Hindu Shuffle "stop" procedure is odd.

It's easy to rationalize the use of the HS since it can accomplish more than one task, both of which are involved in the trick, but that flexibility of method comes with a cost -- it's easy to teach it that way, it's easy for magicians to learn it that way, so as a result many magicians use it that way, so it becomes ubiquitous, and therefore recognizable. It's been exposed as the "Greatest Card Trick in History" (or whatever) on Youtube for a reason.
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J-L Sparrow
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On 2012-05-23 20:20, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
If uniformity of action is the most important thing, you can get even closer to it by having the card selected from a spread both times, and then returned to the deck via shuffle both times.

Wait... How can you have a card selected from a spread both times? You need to force the second selection, so unless you use some sort of spread force, I don't see how you can have a card selected from a spread the second time.

I'm not familiar with spread forces that don't employ a gaffed deck, but I suppose it could be done. I'm just not sure how it could be done (using a non-gaffed deck) without compromising uniformity.
J-L Sparrow
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On 2012-05-24 11:02, J-L Sparrow wrote:
I'm not familiar with spread forces that don't employ a gaffed deck, but I suppose it could be done.

Hmmm... it looks like I spoke too soon. A quick Google search of "spread force" and magic turns up some promising hits. I'll have to look into them.
The Burnaby Kid
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You'll find a workable one in Royal Road to Card Magic. With a bit of thought the routining should make itself obvious.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
J-L Sparrow
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Quote:
On 2012-05-24 20:09, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
You'll find a workable one in Royal Road to Card Magic. With a bit of thought the routining should make itself obvious.

Thanks! I read yesterday that someone said a spread force can be found in Jean Hugard and Frederick Braue's Expert Card Technique. However, I was unable to find one in there. (Maybe I missed it somehow.)

I'll try The Royal Road to Card Magic tonight. Thanks for your suggestion!

-- J-L
The Amazing Pog
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Just an update. I kept with the Hindu shuffle, and right now I'm so glad I did. An hour ago I did a very simple trick with a teenage spectator: Hindu Force, false cut, drop reveal - with a lot of babble inbetween about ideomotor detection and card-bonding (:)). He said it was the best card trick he'd ever seen and went off to tell his mates about it ...

The mechanices were super simple - it was all in the psycho-babble I just made up! Hindu shuffle for the win! Smile

So, I think I'll not be too hasty to question what seems simple, odd or old anymoe. Lesson learnt.
'One of the safest ways to make a good performance is to have tricks which work so easily, that mechanics can be forgotten and every attention devoted to presentation' - Corinda
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