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P T Flea Regular user Engelfield Green, nr Staines - innit 194 Posts |
Does anyone know of a way to make a standard coin suitable of using with the Raven.
I think you will agree that gaffs you can buy are a bit of a rip off. Thanks for any help PT.
Good judgement comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from
bad judgement. |
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phonic69 Special user 560 Posts |
They certainly are, but some 2p's are magnetic (I can't remember if it's the new ones or the old ones) so they can be used. Could you attach a small iron disc to the base of a coin? Would that be strong enough?
Good luck! |
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
Or check with your local dealer about shimmed or magnetic coins that are made by quality companies like Johnson.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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P T Flea Regular user Engelfield Green, nr Staines - innit 194 Posts |
Hi,
Thanks for the replys. It is the new 2p's that are magnetic (along with the 1p's). The problem is they are TOO magnetic. They make a loud CLUNK as they hit the pad (even though it is padded). I suppose you could attach something to the underside of a standard coin, although you couldn't show the coin both sides and it might feel a bit strange to the spec when sitting on the back of their hands. Scott: Do you know where I can find out more about these specialist companies? Would emailing my online dealer be a good start? Thanks for any further help PT
Good judgement comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from
bad judgement. |
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
Yes, any dealer should be able to get steel core, shimmed, or magnetic coins for you.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-05-11 06:48, P T Flea wrote: Absolutely right about the rip off. Here are the easy steps to making your own magnetic or steel-shimmed coin: First you will need TWO of whatever coins you wish to make magnetic, since only about half of each coin will be used in the final single gaffed coin. Now take one of the coins and chuck it in the headstock of your metal lathe. What, you don't OWN a metal lathe? Okay, first, go out and but a metal lathe; you'll need one that has adequate capacity for the diameter of coin you wish to gaff. In addition to the lathe you'll need tooling (internal boring bar as well as O.D. turning tools). Also, you'll need some sort of collet chuck, since the coins don't machine well in standard 3 or 4 jaw chucks. And coins don't generally fit standard collet sizes, so get some blanks that you can custom machine to fit. Don't forget the basic necessities, such as cutting fluid, safety glasses and reliable hearing protection. And, oh yeah, you'll need accurate measuring tools such as a micrometer and/or dial caliper, a dial indicator and (if budget permits) a two-axis digital readout is awfully nice. Okay, so now we've spent $3,000 to $10,000 on the right equipment, but the good news is we're really ready to hum here. Back to that first coin... Chuck it in the headstock and bore out the center to just inside the edged of the rim; what you're making here is a sort of a thick-walled shell. Now take the second coin and face off one side until its thickness matches the depth of the bore of the first coin. Oh, I forgot, you'll need to run out and buy an internal micrometer to get that depth measurment just right; there goes another couple hundred bucks. Anyway, once the second coin is thinned out you'll need to reduce its diameter to match the inside diameter of the "shell" we made earlier. To do this you'll need to find a way to hold it between centers so you can cut away the entire outside edge; I guess you'll need a good ball-bearing tailstock for that, so run back down to the machinery supplier and grab one of those, too. Okay, now that you've got your two halves made you just need to bore out the guts of the second coin to match the steel shim or magnet that you wish to install inside the coin. If you want a good magnet (rare-earth type) you'll discover that the right size - very thin but large diameter - is hard to find and spendy when you do; it IS out there, but I can't tell you where 'cause I promised not to. Keep trying, you'll find it. Finally, when the two halves are machined just right and the shim/magnet fits perfectly, just epoxy everything together and you'll have saved a bundle on those rip off gaff coins. Not on the first one, of course. But if you figure your machinery and tooling costs, add the price of the magnet (a steel shim is cheaper, but you will have to machine THAT too), then take that total and divide it by the cost of a commercially available version you'll arrive at the number of coins you need to gaff (and sell at retail) to break even. Sure that'll be in the hundreds, maybe even thousands of coins... but after that it's all GRAVY! Unless everybody else starts making their own coins too. Then you're in trouble. Regards, Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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Daniel Meadows Veteran user Manchester, UK 392 Posts |
I think Mr Wayne covered that point better than I could; sometimes we forget the work that goes into some items.
P T Flea: You don't need to add anything to the coin. Instead add more felt or padding to the raven, so that it just manages to pick up the coin without a click. I think it even suggests this in the instructions but it has sat in my drawer for so long now. Oh memories!
Cerberus Wallet, Equilibrium, Counterfeit, Deadly Marked Deck, Infamous, Instinct
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mambra New user Milano (Italy) 66 Posts |
Quote:
It is the new 2p's that are magnetic (along with the 1p's). The problem is they are TOO magnetic. They make a loud CLUNK as they hit the pad (even though it is padded). Hi. In Italy we used to have coins very magnetic (50 and 100 lire). Now we have Euro, which are not (or very little). The way to overcome the noise on the Raven was, in my opinion, not to cover the coin, but to cover the raven. You can easily add a fabric on it. I know someone uses the same material to be put under the legs of the chairs. Anyhow... in that case the coin can be borrowed, which, in my opinion, can *start* a routine very nice (because you can then use a gaffed coin.... pretending it is the borrowed one). If you want to *end* a routine, the coin can be gimmicked. Cheers Stefano PS: I sent a couple of private messages few days ago in reply to someone who wrote me, getting an error message. I tried again and everything seemed to be working. In no reply was received, please write me again... I am not SO rude...!!! |
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Daniel Meadows Veteran user Manchester, UK 392 Posts |
The only use I have for my Raven is to stick it in my back pocket. That way you can do a nice little ditch of a magnetic coin (UK 2p), as long as you are not surrounded. And because there is enough trouser fabric between the raven and the coin there will not be any noise.
Cerberus Wallet, Equilibrium, Counterfeit, Deadly Marked Deck, Infamous, Instinct
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Dave Le Fevre Inner circle UK 1666 Posts |
Thomas makes the point very well. And personally, I'm surprised at the low price of the s**** sets (including shimmed coins) that I use.
But in the UK, just stick to a post-1991 2p, P T Flea, and it won't cost you a penny. (Well, two pennies, actually.) Big up to the Staines Massive, and give my regards to Ali G. Dave
The Ozzy Osbourne of the 34x27
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P T Flea Regular user Engelfield Green, nr Staines - innit 194 Posts |
Booyakasha! Big up yourself Dave.
One of me brother's friends actually met Ali G on a train platform in the Staines area and had a chat to him. I hear that he actually mentions Englefield Green in his movie. Anway, back to the subject in hand. I think the best thing for me to do would probably be to add more fabric and use a post 1991 1p or 2p. Thanks for the post Thomas. When you look at it like that, I suppose you can justify the prices that they charge for the coins. I suppose the best thing about using a borrowed 2p would be to eliminate the possibility of a gaffed coin to the spec. "It must be something to do with the coin!" Most usually comes the cry when I perform it (only second to "Do that again!"). I guess I will just have to bite the bullet if I want to use a 10p or quid and dig deep into the old wallet. Check it! Big up yourselves at the Magic Café and Peace Out. PT (firm supporter of Ali G)
Good judgement comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from
bad judgement. |
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davisjr New user Colorado 64 Posts |
Thomas - are you speaking from experience? Actually, being an engineer, I've tried to come up with lots of good reasons to buy a metal lathe. Ultimately, however, I think it would gather dust in the workshop
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
Thomas is speaking from experience, he is a master craftsman.
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
Hey Dan, how the heck did you do that with the picture? It was hard enough for me to figure out how to get a regular picture on this thing!
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
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P T Flea Regular user Engelfield Green, nr Staines - innit 194 Posts |
It's because he's using a picture format called a gif. As in avatar.gif as supposed to .jpg or .bmp etc.
The cool thing about gif picture files is that they contain more that one image and can be shown in an order to make them look like a basic animation! Some graphics packages will let you create gifs. You just have to find the right ones. I am sure Dan can point you in the right direction there. In fact, I believe the very smilies we put at the bottom of the posts are very cool little gifs! Sorry to answer a question asked to someone else I just couldn't resist. Cheers PT
Good judgement comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from
bad judgement. |
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-05-15 16:17, Dan Watkins wrote: Thank you for that Dan. When it comes to coin gaffs, however, I bow to the one true master - Todd Lassen. I have every tool (in multiples) necessary to build any gaffed coin in existence... and I get ALL my coin work done by Todd. (319) 323-3048. Don't delay, call him today. Regards, Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
Mike, as PT pointed out, that is an animated gif file.
I had someone shoot 3 pictures of me with a digital camera - one with me looking right, one head on, one looking left. Those pictures also had the matching hand positions you see. I use a program called Adobe Photoshop 7.0 (it's the latest version of a very popular photo editor - many photo professionals use this software). Photoshop uses something called layers that allow you to add multiple layers photo, where each layer is it's own object and can be moved and modified. I cut the background out from behind me. I cut my arms out and repositioned them insided that small frame (my pictures did not have my arms that close when I shot them). I had layers for the following: 3 layers of my body position 6 layers of different hand positions I opened a picture of a coin, shrunk it down positioned it where my hands are. I have 4 layers of coins - 2 on each hand - the other 2 are at 50% opacity that gives the coins the look of being half translucent during the vanish. Adobe Photoshop comes with a companion program called Image Ready which is a program to optimize images for the web. That program allows me to take the different layers of a photoshop file and display them in sequence hiding layers, showing layers, etc. to create the animation. I adjust the color levels and lossyness (compression) of the image down to the appropriate file size - and you see what I made. Thats it in a nutshell Dan |
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davisjr New user Colorado 64 Posts |
And make no mistake, buying Photoshop costs about as much as getting a metal lathe; and going through the process Dan describes is like learning to cut coins like Thomas described. The end result, however, is still magic...
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Tony Veteran user Los Angeles 303 Posts |
Whoa Dan, that was 13 images (in ImageReady)! That's a great idea! Thanks.
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
Dan, I'm impressed! The photo looks great (even if you did have to take two weeks off from work to make it!). Only kidding, hope it didn't take much time - can you do a multi coin spellbound the same way?
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
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