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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Energy Shortage (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Woland
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According to the GAO and the USGS:

Quote:
The Green River Formation—an assemblage of over 1,000 feet of sedimentary rocks that lie beneath parts of Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming—contains the world’s largest deposits of oil shale. USGS estimates that the Green River Formation contains about 3 trillion barrels of oil, and about half of this may be recoverable, depending on available technology and economic conditions. The Rand Corporation, a nonprofit research organization, estimates that 30 to 60 percent of the oil shale in the Green River Formation can be recovered. At the midpoint of this estimate, almost half of the 3 trillion barrels of oil would be recoverable. This is an amount about equal to the entire world’s proven oil reserves.


Yes. One formation in the continental United States contains an amount of recoverable oil equal to the rest of the world's proven oil reserves.
MagicSanta
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Wanna bet the oil companies would export it to China and India?
Woland
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Why not?
MagicSanta
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No why not. I just don't want to hear this BS about the US opening up drilling areas to be 'power self sufficient'. Just be honest and say open it up for profiteering. I am not against drilling, I am against companies lying.
Woland
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It isn't profiteering, Santa. Oil is oil. If the US produces more oil and imports less, then the production from other countries will not longer be shipped here, it will be shipped elsewhere. If we produce more than we need, then why not sell it to others? Besides, from the "green" point of view, things will be done more cleanly in the US than anywhere else.
balducci
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More domestic production does not necessarily imply importing any less.

In Canada, the Western provinces are more or less oil self-sufficient. They export the oil they do not need (e.g., to the U.S.). Eastern Canada imports oil from overseas. Basically, production in one part of a country may be exported rather than shared with the rest of the country for a number of reasons, having to do with prices, pipelines, refineries, etc. I don't see why this would be any different in the U.S.

From http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/25/......377.html:

Canada exports about two-thirds of its oil to the United States— while half of the oil used in Canada is imported from other countries.

Western Canada is self-sufficient, supplying its own oil before exporting the rest. But Eastern Canada relies on imported oil — despite the fact that some provinces are oil producers.

There are several offshore drilling operations in Newfoundland and Labrador, but none of the oil is actually used in Canada. The Maritime provinces rely on an oil supply that's imported from Saudi Arabia, Africa and Venezuela.

Oil sent to U.S. for processing

Ontario's oil comes from Western Canada, but it is sent first to the United States to be refined before being delivered to the province.

Professionals in the pipeline industry point to lower costs as the reason behind this system. Though it may seem counterintuitive, some say that it is actually much cheaper to use imported oil, since it costs less than it would to move our own oil across the country.

Brenda Kenny, president of the Canadian Energy Pipelines Association, said that using imported oil eliminates certain costs.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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I agree with you Woland. I believe if India and China wants the US oil then the companies would export it all and import still. We live in a wacky world. We really should drill, even if it means taking money from the middle East so they can go extremist and kill each other and leave us alone.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-05-13 20:31, Woland wrote:
Besides, from the "green" point of view, things will be done more cleanly in the US than anywhere else.


The problem, though, is that mining and/or extracting shale oil produces significantly more greenhouse emissions and dangerous toxins than drilling. As you noted earlier, we would first have to come up with a more efficient and environmentally safe extraction technology.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_oil_e......erations
MagicSanta
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Bob, howzabout we drill from the opposite side of earth, we just need to go deeper. Dang, thanks for mentioning mining, I have to update my mining safety cert.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On 2012-05-13 21:41, MagicSanta wrote:
Bob, howzabout we drill from the opposite side of earth, we just need to go deeper. Dang, thanks for mentioning mining, I have to update my mining safety cert.


Good idea. And while were at it we could double up and make the first subway to China.
balducci
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Topic of the day: "Seaway pipeline sends oil to Texas in historic reversal"

Setup: "Many argue the reversal is the start of a trend toward reduced U.S. dependence on crude from the Middle East and elsewhere overseas."

Punchline: "The average motorist will not see much, if any, difference in gasoline pump price but oil producers and Gulf Coast refiners expect profits to improve."

:)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/seaway-pip......542.html
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Payne
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The biggest problem being is that it takes more energy to get the oil out of shale than the oil itself will generate. So you start out at a loss. The only reason that this is economically possible at the moment is that the natural gas used to power the extraction process is cheaper than the oil being extracted. Therefor there is a monetary gain but not one in energy output. Energy wise you'd be better off using the natural gas to power vehicles, heat homes and generate power than you would be using the oil you extracted from it. no to mention that regardless of how large this find is. It's still a limited resource. We are going to run out eventually. So there is no time like the present to seriously start looking into renewable forms of energy production to meet our ever increasing needs. Shale oil is a good stop gap measure to get us over the hump. But it is not a solution to our energy needs.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
tommy
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Didn't the Germans make synthetic oil from coal in the war and have you fellows not got a lot of coal over there?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2012-05-21 15:46, Payne wrote:
The biggest problem being is that it takes more energy to get the oil out of shale than the oil itself will generate. So you start out at a loss. The only reason that this is economically possible at the moment is that the natural gas used to power the extraction process is cheaper than the oil being extracted. Therefor there is a monetary gain but not one in energy output. Energy wise you'd be better off using the natural gas to power vehicles, heat homes and generate power than you would be using the oil you extracted from it. no to mention that regardless of how large this find is. It's still a limited resource. We are going to run out eventually. So there is no time like the present to seriously start looking into renewable forms of energy production to meet our ever increasing needs. Shale oil is a good stop gap measure to get us over the hump. But it is not a solution to our energy needs.


Maybe not today, but the tech to get it done cheaper is a LOT closer than wind power or change over to natural gas for cars and such. Much less solar.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
MagicSanta
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Now my pal Payne brings up a valid point. If it takes more energy to drill than we,ll gain then don't drill.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2012-05-21 16:20, tommy wrote:
Didn't the Germans make synthetic oil from coal in the war and have you fellows not got a lot of coal over there?


Probably better to increase research in extracting synthetic oil from algae or other renewable biomass than the dead end of coal or shale.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
balducci
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They've been doing synthetic oil from coal for nearly 100 years. It is in use today in China and South Africa, and possibly elsewhere:

http://www.mediaclubsouthafrica.com/inde......rom-coal

It _might_ be a better solution than solar or wind but I question whether it would be better than natural gas, which is plentiful (in the U.S. and Canada, anyway) and already readily available in any city (perhaps with some minor infrastructure add-ons).

BTW even the largest synthetic fuel company in the world (Sasol) can only produce about 150,000 barrels a day (see link above).
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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