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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Deckless! » » John Bannon - Spin Doctor (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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helder
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Hi buddies, what's your opinion about this routine? The discrepances, the 5th card? Do you use it?
I'm thinking in using it with a message on the back (a word for each card), or a company logo instead of different color backs. I will do it in a tv show, maybe. Some magicians said that the 5th card it's not good, how about put in in the pocket (ace of spades) and make it appear on the packet?
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dpe666
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I use this all the time with fantastic results. It sounds to me like you suffer greatly from "Magician's Guilt". Smile
helder
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Quote:
On 2012-05-16 21:38, dpe666 wrote:
I use this all the time with fantastic results. It sounds to me like you suffer greatly from "Magician's Guilt". Smile

I don't suffer ''magicians guilt'' instead I like think in what I'm doing and do my best, wich is a diferent thing. But thanks anyway for your advices. Much appreciated
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dpe666
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On 2012-05-16 20:33, helder wrote:
The discrepances, the 5th card? Some magicians said that the 5th card it's not good, how about put in in the pocket (ace of spades) and make it appear on the packet?

All of those issues are examples of magician's guilt. You (and others) think too much like magicians and not like lay people. No lay person (who has been entertained) is going to question those things. I do this effect at nearly every table, almost every night. I have been doing this for the last year. Not once has anyone questioned the 5th card or noticed any discrepancies. Do not worry about stuff like that, and just worry about being entertaining. Smile
helder
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Quote:
On 2012-05-16 22:52, dpe666 wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-05-16 20:33, helder wrote:
The discrepances, the 5th card? Some magicians said that the 5th card it's not good, how about put in in the pocket (ace of spades) and make it appear on the packet?

All of those issues are examples of magician's guilt. You (and others) think too much like magicians and not like lay people. No lay person (who has been entertained) is going to question those things. I do this effect at nearly every table, almost every night. I have been doing this for the last year. Not once has anyone questioned the 5th card or noticed any discrepancies. Do not worry about stuff like that, and just worry about being entertaining. Smile

So, for you the most important thing it's entertainment? Where's the importance of the effect? It doesn't matter, it matter but the entertainment it's more important or you don't care?

Alright, again thanks for your advices. Very helpfull.
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Mb217
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I mostly agree with dp on this, I think he's more right than wrong. Spec's typically do not pickup such discrepancies, heck a lot of times they might not pick up outright mistakes. Smile That's all because you are leading them and they don't know where you're going most times. That's a real advantage for you. But I do understand your feelings as to doing something well or the best you can. Magicians typically know every move and sometimes can't believe that something might be done well enough to fool a spec because it looks so blatant, perhaps sloppy to the magi. I have learned that specs miss a lot as to moves, most cannot tell in the spur of a moment a good classic palm from a bad one, mostly because they don't suspect your classic palming (as to coins). I would work on whatever move you're feeling a bit less-than with until you feel better about it, usually time or exacter knowledge as to what you're doing helps to smooth it all out. As to dp, I know what you mean too and for the most part, you're right...It's really about the entertainment and if the specs feel amazed dispite any such mishandling, then you've still suceeded. But that don't mean if you're skating on thin ice with a move just getting by maybe, that you don't try to improve it, which I know you already do. Smile It's not that you don't care about technique but what the spec thinks about the effect is more important than anything else IMHO, that is if the goal is to amaze people. Smile It's good to be happy with yourself as well, breeds confidence. Smile
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Mr. Mystoffelees
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"So, for you the most important thing it's entertainment? Where's the importance of the effect?"

I agree, and for me discrepant effects are troubling and I avoid them. Of course, entertainment is vital and necessary, but my venue is magic, and I want my audience to NEVER be able to suss out the method. Long after the entertainment has ebbed, some specs will have a niggling suspicion or a remembrance, and therefore a final opinion. I want that opinion to be "it was a great show, and that guy is a MAGICIAN"

Jim!
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
pabloinus
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Spin Doctor is a great trick, I am a hobbist so I am more a spectator than magician,and the discrepancy was invisible, until I got the DVD and start playing with the trick.
I am sure that any other spectator will have the same experience, great trick, and nothing to be found.

At least this is my experience

Pablo
mickym
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I also agree with all these claims. I think that the most important thing is that the audience is left with a strong impression of having had a good time, having seen unbelievable things, and even sometimes they will not remember what exactly was the effect. They may even not remember at all what was the effect and only that it was extraordinary. This is what is important.
Xcath1
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I am using the Spin Doctor set for B'rainiac, from Triabolical. I did not think much of the trick when I saw the demo but I decided to give it some play. Great responses, 5! climaxes in one effect. Their chosen Ace face up, all others blank, their chosen ace has a different color, other aces return, all have different backs. Done in the hands. One of my go to effects now.Am posting in packet tricks as well
Magicsquared
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This is a bizarre thread. There is no discrepancy in Spin Doctors. The appearance of the 5th card is part of the effect. But yes, you could certainly just pocket that card (and have it "return" to the packet) if that feels more logical to you.
dpe666
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On 2012-05-18 17:09, Magicsquared wrote:
This is a bizarre thread. There is no discrepancy in Spin Doctors.

Yes there is.

Now, getting back to my point. I would rather see a competent magician performing passable sleight of hand yet is entertaining the hell out of the audience than to see a slick sleight of hand artist performing perfect sleight of hand yet is boring the hell out of the audience. Is it possible to perform the sleights perfectly and be entertaining? Of course it is, and one should strive for that (Chad Long springs to mind). However, it is more important to an audience that they are entertained. That is what they are paying you for. If not with money, then they are paying you with their time, which to some people is more valuable. Smile
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Well said, dpe...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Magicsquared
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On 2012-05-18 21:19, dpe666 wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-05-18 17:09, Magicsquared wrote:
This is a bizarre thread. There is no discrepancy in Spin Doctors.

Yes there is.

You're mistaken or you're misunderstanding the effect.

And, to your bigger point, I have no doubt that if the performer can't grasp the premise of the effect then it's going to be hard to be entertaining with it.
Mb217
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Oh, and as to Spin Doctor, I think it's pretty good. I like Bannon's tricks and used to do Duplicity all the time. I also like the way he packages what he does and his overall string of logic as to presentation. I'm no longer big on such involved card tricks, not big on all the twisting, turning and even spinning nowadays. I guess I like the simpler stuff really, but this is coming from a coin guy. Smile I rarely have the time to spend on these longer more studious card effects and leave my cardistry these days to things like NFW, B'Wave, Doc Daley Last Trick, ReFlipped, ACAAN, ACR, etc. I like the more instant amazement aspects in these sorts of tricks and I think it's very hard for any such packet card effect to be any better than NFW all things considered, Smile but that's just me.

Still, Bannon's work is a treatise on good card magic and he's had some really clever ones to be sure. Great worker and thinker and you can't go wrong with this Good Doctor's "Spin" on things. Smile
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dpe666
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Quote:
On 2012-05-19 12:38, Magicsquared wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-05-18 21:19, dpe666 wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-05-18 17:09, Magicsquared wrote:
This is a bizarre thread. There is no discrepancy in Spin Doctors.

Yes there is.

You're mistaken or you're misunderstanding the effect.

No, I am not. There is a huge discrepancy at the begining. If I remember right Bannon even talks about it on the DVD. Smile
Magicsquared
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Quote:
On 2012-05-19 13:20, dpe666 wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-05-19 12:38, Magicsquared wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-05-18 21:19, dpe666 wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-05-18 17:09, Magicsquared wrote:
This is a bizarre thread. There is no discrepancy in Spin Doctors.

Yes there is.

You're mistaken or you're misunderstanding the effect.

No, I am not. There is a huge discrepancy at the begining. If I remember right Bannon even talks about it on the DVD. Smile

Ah! okay, I was misunderstanding the original post. I thought he was complaining about the 5th card being discrepant. (Now I'm not really sure what his issue is with the 5th card.)

yes, there's a discrepancy after the first display. dpe is right that no one notices. Especially if you take a beat right before that discrepancy. And even if something seems "off" for them, the counts that follow should reinforce what the situation is.
Mr. Mystoffelees
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That is one of the reason I like Duplicity, it is so clean...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Mb217
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You're right, you won't even notice it, flies right by them. Lots of things in magic work like that, it's sorta like a jumpcut in a great movie, maybe you notice something or other but it goes by so fast within the greater context of the effect, that basically no blood, no foul. Much ado about nothing much at all. Smile To argue even a little bit of such a small thing is like not cashing a big check because it might be a buck short, or something like that. Smile After all the spinning in this trick you won't remember any such hiccup. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Mini Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
joseph
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.. and it's John Bannon ..I'm sure he's (and I) performed this
hundreds of times, and the entertainment value outweighs
the discrepancies ...
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Einstein)...
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