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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
JT +1, eloquently put.
I'll add, that in my opinion, The Big Question really isn't the one about the Big Guy, but Rodney King's.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-20 20:54, Dannydoyle wrote: Here's another area in which we totally agree, Danny. :) |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Payne
Thank you very much the concept of an entertainment complex in the middle of a sewage system is a very very profound thought.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-20 22:27, mastermindreader wrote: Look at us all getting along and agreeing. If that is not proof of God what is?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
May I humbly offer an opinion (hi Lobo and again I apologize if it came across as exclusive, not my intention)
Something that may be interesting to explore is the possibility that all the attributes that we assign to God are in reality originating from Scripture and philosophy, ancient and modern. The reality is that words are a limited entity. How therefore can a limited entity adequately describe an "unlimited, infinite" reality..... Abdu'l-Baha says: "The purpose is to show that these attributes and perfections that we recount for that Universal Reality are only in order to deny imperfections, rather than to assert the perfections that the human mind can conceive. Thus we say His attributes are unknowable." So, when we say God is omnipotent, omniscient, all-knowing, all-just, omnipresent, benevolent. God is in actuality, none of those..... I think that's quite unique in terms of thinking dating back 100 or so years.. Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-20 17:51, Dannydoyle wrote: Danny: it's not like you to miss an opportunity: I was waiting to see you to tell Payne to put Ron's extra sock in it. ;) |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-20 12:47, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Jonathan, I think for the first time, I like where you're going with your post. It's nice to walk side by side with you finally 'God, exalted be He, fashioned one hundred thousand, thousand lamps and suspended the Throne, the earth, the heavens and whatsoever is between them, even Heaven and Hell -- all of these in a single lamp. And only God knows what is in the rest of the lamps.' (this is not to be taken literally, but has symbolic significance, as does Jonathan's reference to the pond analogy.) Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
This is a good little book which makes one stop and think, did I leave the kettle on? No!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Book-Coin......9&sr=1-1
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-21 01:24, S2000magician wrote: My OP had nothing whatsoever to do with the concept of any God, or an Intelligent Designer, or Intelligent Design as a quasi-scientific paradigm. I was not indulging in any kind of "anti-God" rant, Danny. Your interpretation and accusation is baseless and off-target. In the book, "At Home in the Universe," author Stuart Kaufmann wrote, "...the order of the biosphere is shaped by laws than Darwinian natural selection alone. Exactly what these laws might say remains to be seen...but we have some tantalizing hints. ..we now sense the striking possibility that the diversity of life is fuelled by the same processes that gave rise to life in the first place...that the biosphere exists in a state of constant creative tension, poised between sterile simplicity and lethal fecundity; and, most fundamental of all, that life itself is rooted not in blind chance but mathematical necessity." The organic compounds required for "life as we know it" are found beyond the confines of our local planet and our local Solar System. Almost 10 years ago, scientists scanning a galaxy 12 million light-years away with NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope detected copious amounts of nitrogen containing polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PANHs), molecules critical to all known forms of life. Life's building blocks appear to be rather abundant in Space. If you choose to turn this into a religious debate, we can agree to disagree as reasonable people, with civility. However, I did not invoke "God."
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-21 08:14, panlives wrote: Well sorry you missed it but the key was in when I used the word PAYNE to show I was not addressing you. Look again it is right there in where you quoted. Don't worry though, you can still get in with Bob and I if you like LOL. (Payne too. Matter of fact an afterlife without him would be BORING AS CAN BE!)
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
The significant observation to me, in my opinion, as far as I can tell, is that man does not feel at home in the universe, and is alienated from it in a way that animals don't seem to be. How could that be, if man simply arose as a necessary feature of the universe?
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-21 09:07, Dannydoyle wrote: Oh. Never mind.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-21 09:07, Dannydoyle wrote: Sorry - my mistake.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-21 10:25, Woland wrote: Well I for one certainly feel at home in the universe. After all, all of my stuff is here. Hopefully my spell-check worked better with this post than my previous one.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
As for the original question (and irrespective of any pro- or anti-God rants), the problem is that it's hard to answer without comparing to other universes, even potential ones.
It's easy to say statements like, "if the value of h-bar or G or others of a handful of fundamental constants were off even by 1% [or some other apparently small number], then life as we know it couldn't exist anywhere in the universe." One class of replies focusses on the "life as we know it" part of that statement. Those replies wonder what other forms of life there might be in other universes, etc. I think just as compelling a reply involves the "1%" aspect of the statement. In many contexts (especially everyday contexts), a 1% tolerance is very low. If you're only 1% over the speed limit, you're unlikely to get a ticket. You can usually buy a $1.01 widget with only $1.00. Etc. However, in some contexts, a 1% tolerance is downright huge. Semiconductor manufacturing, MEMS (microelectronic/mechanical systems), and even a lot of macroscopic systems. For example, many of the mechanical couplings in car engines and other high-use systems are manufactured with surprisingly high precision. So how does one tell if 1% is relatively high or relatively low tolerance? One needs to know about the context. I know how money works, so I know that a 1% price tolerance is usually pretty low, at least with dolar amounts in everyday transactions. I know that radar guns are accurate to within 1 or 2 mph, so a 1% cushion in speed limit compliance is pretty low, at least at everyday speeds. But I have no idea about creating universes. I've never done it before. I don't know how the process is constrained, if at all. I don't know how often a universe is created. I have no idea how to make sense of a 1% (or other apparently low) tolerance. |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Humans have existed for just .00145% of the 13.7 billion year age of the Universe. If the age of the Universe were condensed into a calendar year, with the Big Bang occuring on Jan. 1 and this moment being midnight on Dec. 31, then humans just appeared on the scene at something like 6 seconds to midnight on Dec. 31. And, like 99% of all life which has gone extinct on this planet, humans themselves came perilously close to extinction 70,000 years ago. Furthermore, we occupy a volume of space that's much less than .0000001% of the total volume of the Universe, the vast majority of which is inhospitable. Does that sound like a Universe that's fine tuned for life?
Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Everything in Universe is living even the dead things.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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ringmaster Inner circle Memphis, Down in Dixie 1974 Posts |
We are fine tuned for living.
One of the last living 10-in-one performers. I wanted to be in show business the worst way, and that was it.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
We are not not going to operate very efficiently if we do not conform with the intelligence of the universe. Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man, healthy wealthy and wise, and all that. When things do not conform they do not operate very efficiently and do not last long. Which is why things that have been here a long time seen to fit you see.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Big Bang Theory Explanation: http://big-bang-theory.com/
If this is the best explanation one can come up with and get people to believe in it...all I can say is wow! Not to change this into a religious discussion as many times that is where a topic such as this goes. but if you can swallow the "big bang theory explanation" which from what I read here which is really no explanation at all and cannot be really explained, why is it so hard to belieive in a Supreme Being, which cannot be explained either? Just read the first paragraph of the explanation of The Big Bang Theory...is it double talk or what? First there was nothing then thehre was something. The next thing I am waiting for them to say is the great magician saying, "that sounds fair doesn't it?" It just seems that no one has any idea how it all started. Guess that is why it is called a theory on one hand and faith on the other hand. As a friend of mine once said while playng Texas Holdem with the board not showing 3 cards of the same suit, I have a flush. Someone said it is impossible to have a flush, there is not 3 of the same suit on board, to which he reliped, "Believe what you want". This little story makes sense only to thoe who understand poker> SORRY.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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