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Harry Lorayne
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Danny: Really, no problem. The only thing that bothered me is that I'm getting a bit thin-skinned over people who talk about things that they are unfamiliar with, know nothing about. I believe that's wrong...no, strike "believe" - I KNOW that's wrong. That's it, and really that's all. And, the only reason I mentioned the number of tricks is because of another remark by someone who obviously has absolutely no knowledge of APOCALYPSE, which is considered by many to be the best magic magazine ever! No advertisements, no pages taken up with biographies, pictures, etc. - JUST MAGIC - when he made that unknowledgeable remark about the volumes being very expensive. I find a need to respond to UNKNOWLEDGEABLE remarks, statements made as facts, which obviously ARE NOT. Aside from the number of items, APOCALYPSE was about $50.00 a year, and there are five years in each volume - that'd be $250.00...they were selling for $79.95 when they were available. Anyway, I'll just go along with one of the posts above:
"The Apocalypse series is incredible. There is enough magic in those books to last a dozen lifetimes". Harry.
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djurmann
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I too am not offended but let's take the post you were referring to line by line.

"First (as a trainer) many people put the cart before the horse...you need to consider your personal learning style.

as an experienced professional educator I am definitely in a position to say this

There is a general feeling within the magic fraternity that books are best....they certainly offer more bang for your buck.

of the posts relating to the topic (starting in card magic) there was almost no mention of DVD's, and reading the forums experienced performers tend to speak of books more highly than DVD's...and compared to a DVD you get more for your money (see Apocalypse)....so this is not ill informed either.

But you may find the Royal road hard going.

I did and do so this is informed opinion

Should you prefer the DVD route, at least to begin then I would recommend Lee Smiths STEP system. For books I would recommend Mark Wilson's Complete magic course...lots of pictures and easier to follow (imho) than the Royal Road.

Both of which I have so it is informed opinion

Harry's stuff is highly regarded but I have no personal experience.

Enough people who do have your stuff say it is good so the above sentence was also correct

John Bannon's stuff is also good.

I have seen and possess some of his material too - so informed opinion

Am I biased...of course....but so is everyone."

End of the post.

So what I wrote was informed opinions...but opinion is bias and everyone has opinions. The danger comes when people start using fact as a synonym for "things I agree with" and opinion as a synonym for "opinions I don't agree with". Because of my training (scientist) I tend to be more aware of opinion vs fact vs assumption than many.

Regarding Spartacus' comment about cost, as we know expensive can be used as shorthand for "a lot of money" rather than "poor value for money" and you were right to make the distinction. Whether $86 is a lot of money is a very individual thing and depends on how much you have and how much you are willing to pay for a book. However I submit that the suggestion that he (or I) know nothing is rather emotional opinion rather than dispassionate fact.

That said the weakness of these forums (fora?) is that one cannot tell the provenance of the information. The fact that I am a "special user" rather than a "new user" is testament to the fact that I post a lot rather than any sort of personal wonderfulness and as a long term experienced magic pro your opinion should certainly carry more weight than mine (assuming you are indeed THE Harry Lorayne not someone with just a Harry Lorrayne internet persona....the weakness of internet forums comes again).

Best wishes,

Danny

Posted: Jun 3, 2012 5:42am
Back on the OP, you can download a taster of Magicseen free at http://www.magicseen.co.uk

Best wishes,

Danny
Harry Lorayne
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Er..er..er...okay. I think I agree with all you say, djurmann, except - your opinion about what's "expensive." If someone says that he doesn't have the money for a particular book - THAT'S fact. If he says something that he knows nothing about is "very expensive," that - in my opinion - is wrong and certainly isn't "fact." In my opinion, it is wrong to say that publicly. I ran the monthly magazine in question for twenty years and never said something like that about anyone or anything. Anyway, enough - I stated above why the APOCALYPSE volumes are ANYTHING but "very expensive." You "gets what you pays for." We are all entitled to our opinions, wrong or otherwise. And I assume that you are indeed THE djurmann. Best Wishes - Harry.
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djurmann
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Hi Harry,

I think the point has been made that Apocalypse is unbelievable value for money and it is also fair to say that your contribution to magic outstrips most of the world.

As for the rest - I feel that the right for people to publicly say things I disagree with is important, and the discourse that follows equally important. Had Spartacus not contended that Apocalypse was expensive you would not have returned in vigorous defence, and the rest of us would not of been aware how good value it is.

Best wishes,

from he who may or may not be the DJurmann ;o)

and now....I will spend less time on magic forums and more time doing magic!
Harry Lorayne
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Hi djurmann: You are absolutely right.

Posted: Jun 3, 2012 11:27am
I also agree that I should spend less time on magic forums and more time finishing the magic book I'm working on as we speak.
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epsilon97
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Man, it is unfortunate that this thread has been hijacked off topic.
Harry Lorayne
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Seems as if it's been ON target all along. Unfortunate that you don't see that.
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AlexB
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Quote:
On 2012-06-03 12:00, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Seems as if it's been ON target all along. Unfortunate that you don't see that.

Exactly. After all, it has given Mr. Lorayne the opportunity to point out a (reportedly) amazing product of his that you might have otherwise missed. You should be thanking Mr. Lorayne for so generously and unselfishly sharing his knowledge with you.
Harry Lorayne
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Do I detect a bit of sarcasm from Mr. AlexB? Seems as if for a "new user" he's quite knowledgeable. Of course, if I'm wrong I sincerely apologize. Incidentally, I don't believe I called my product - here or ANYWHERE - "amazing." I admit to being stupid, but not THAT stupid. I leave those kinds of "reviews" to others. I am aware of the fact that there are always a few AlexBs around, so I have to be careful. Again, if I'm wrong, you have my abject apologies. If I'm not wrong, we breathlessly await more of his oh so knowledgeable/obviously with so much experience behind them, remarks.

Posted: Jun 3, 2012 2:01pm
PS: Apropos of one of my remarks above, I leave those kinds of statements/reviews to people who DO have much magical knowledge and experience, who HAVE been into magic for a LONG time, like Brad Burt, in this thread. I feel it's apropos to quote him here - "I don't think that anything has ever been published periodically that's as dense with really good to great material as Apocalypse." As I said, I would never, ever, write something like that myself, but/and I do appreciate it.
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Wizard of Oz
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Another excellent collection are the Ibidem volumes:
http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic/card-magic/ibidem-1-3
Not as well-groomed as Apocalypse in my humble opinion, but another wellspring of very creative magic.

Posted: Jun 3, 2012 2:33pm
I'd also like to give a tip of the hat to Dan Harlan's Minotaur magazine. Geared more toward the underground, his "final issue" is on DVD and is one of my favorite buys of the year. A ton of commercial, do-able magic for every level.
http://www.papercranemagic.com/minotaur.htm

Posted: Jun 3, 2012 2:35pm
And, has anyone mentioned Reel Magic Magazine yet?
http://reelmagicmagazine.com
It is a very accessible video magazine with something for everyone. I like to buy mine from my local brick and mortar, but you can subscribe as well. Good stuff every issue.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Harry Lorayne
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Ibidem was always one of my favorites. P. Howard Lyons was a friend, and I believe I contributed one or two items to it.
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JJKnight
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Great topic. Lots of good resources. Any other mags out there? I personally have been trying to scrounge up for Genii but magic is not the cheapest hobby around ;-)! Any recommendations for the poorer among us? I definitly want a copy of the Apocalypse set but that aint happening for awhile.
djurmann
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Sign up at lybrary.com....they took over the learned pig project and it has a whole load of old books/magazines....including tarbell....and it is free.
Wizard of Oz
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Shame on me. I almost forgot the very excellent "Magic Menu," now available in collected volumes. Great stuff...
http://www.dennymagic.com/products/book/......h-5-book
http://www.dennymagic.com/products/book/......ars-6-10
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
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