A Couple of Questions regarding mentors?

1. Did you have one?
2. In what ways did you improve?
3. How do I find one (I'm about 90 minutes from Los Angeles,CA)?


Thanks all,
David

1) I have a couple of mentors - although I don't think I realized the role they've played until I was reading your question. Since I'm now aware of it, let me say "thanks" to Kent and Will.

2) You name it - with their input and encouragement I've improved in just about every area. They help me when I'm not quite getting a move or a sleight (I don't learn well straight from a book, and some things on DVD are good - but there is nothing like having a first hand demonstration). They help with patter and presentation as I'm trying to figure out if something works. I did realize that I'm very nervous whenever I present a trick to them...I can do it a hundred times at the house, but when I try to do it in front of Kent or on Skype with Will - talk about a flock of butterflies!

3) This is probably the hardest of the questions to answer. As with lots of things in life, finding a good mentor has a bit to do with being in the right place at the right time. I was away from magic completely for about 25 years or so and only came back 'round to it when I met Will. He was in town for a special gig and I had the opportunityt to host him at our house. We laughed and played around with a couple of tricks and an old flame was rekindled. I am fortunate enough to have a magic shop in the town where I live and Will and I visited there during his trip. Kent and I had "met" before, but things didn't really click...things were different this time and I've been known to stop by the shop 3 or 4 times a week. We talk about life and work and magic and one thing has led to another. I consider myself fortunate for both of their friendships. On top of that, I get to learn magic...

I have several DVD's that feature Ben Salinas, Simon Lovell, Cameron Francis and a few others. And while I've spent a great deal of time watching and rewatching these guys on DVD, I can't call them mentors (although I have exchanged some emails with Ben about a routine that I'm working up).

I think I'd encourage you to find a local shop or magician and just try hanging out and getting to know them - you never know where that might lead.

Just a couple of thoughts, hope they are helpful.

JD

I had one when I was younger. Considering my age, I was a teen at the time, I think I learned card magic faster and and more effectively then I would have without one. He lived down the block from me and had a small magic shop in one of the local department stores at the time.

I believe the closest magic shop is the one at Hollywood Toys & Costumes. I was in there last week and the man working there was very nice. Locally, I don't know of any card magicians.

Books and DVD's have been my friend in this journey. Hopefully I will find the right person in this process.

Thank you for your comments,
David

David,

Don't underestimate the power of Skype. One of my mentors lives in Ohio and I live in Montana. We still talk via Skype regularly. Demo's aren't exactly the same as in person, but they're not bad. I'm probably not qualified to be a mentor, but I'd be happy to try to help out if you ever needed something within my skillset.

Who knows, maybe someone reading this will be in your neck of the woods.

JD

I just might take you up on the offer. Skype does make distance less important. Just need to get the right person on the other end.
David

David,

Look up Tyler Erickson. He offers skype lessons and the first one is free. I've been studying with him for nearly 1.5 years and it's done wonders for all aspects of my magic.

Jason

Another vote for Tyler Erickson. He's an excellent teacher, and his card work is the finest I've seen. I was originally going to write that it's "easily" the finest I've seen, but perhaps Steve Forte comes a bit close. He's leaps and bounds over anybody you'll meet here at the Café, myself (easily) included.

Plus, probably most importantly, he's not out to create clones of himself. He's said many times that his greatest satisfaction is, after training, watching his students go their own way and create things he never could have imagined.

1. Never had one. Wish I did.
2. (not applicable)
3. In a lecture at Magic Inc., last fall, John Bannon emphasized the importance of a "Brain Trust" for every magician's development. I wanted to post that idea, a sort of lateral sharing among inspiring peers, as a potential alternative to the vertical mentor-to-apprentice relationship that you were asking about.

Can you elaborate on the Brain Trust concept? Thanks,
David

I became interested in magic at a time when you learned from books or other magicians. I was lucky to have two mentors in those early days. Without them, it would have been a long road. Today, it's possible to progress nicely by using DVD's, since almost everything is available that way.

I don't consider taking paid lessons from someone the same as having a mentor. To me, a mentor is someone who takes you under his wing. And over the couse of time, a fairly close relationship develops.

How can one get in contact with Tyler Erickson?

I have had older magicians that inspired me, Jack Pyle, Jay Marshall, Don Alan etc. But I have never had a mentor. Back in those days magic secrets were harder to get, there were no DVD's and what I could learn was from books - and then performing and then having a need - and then that situation forced me to invent to take care of the performance problem or the need that came from performing.

Hofzinser then Ramsay then Elmsley - with lots of support (and patience/tolerance too) from modern card innovators including Gene Maze and Ken Krenzel - and great advice and council from folks including Wes James, Sam Schwartz, Jerry Deutsch and even folks closer to my peer group including Doug Edwards.

The first thing to consider is what do you want to accomplish with your magic?

Is it to amaze other magicians, entertain friends or perform for the public?

Perhaps the best thing a mentor can do is instill good habits. When you watch a good professional entertainer (singer/comedian/magician) their performance is pretty seamless and it is difficult to perceive what they are doing that makes them so good. On the other hand bad habits are very noticeable. Sadly most magic DVDs are made by magicians with lousy performing and presentational skills. That's why so many magicians pick up so many bad habits. It is the blind leading the blind.

If you do close-up and can't find a mentor I recommend buying some of the close-up competition DVDs from International Magic where you can see dozens of magicians one after the other. Take a notepad and list all the things you don't like and all the things you do like. And I don't mean tricks, I mean presentation and stagecraft. Their use of eye contact, body movement, clarity of effect, use of helpers, pointing, pausing and timing, building of suspense etc.

Daniel,

Here: http://tylerteach.com/contact

Jason

They're certainly not the same thing, but they're not mutually exclusive. Over the last year and a half, I've become friends with Tyler and he's certainly taken me under his wing -- that is, he definitely counts as a mentor -- even if I still pay him for formal lessons. And I remember listening to one of the Magic Newswire "Spirit of Magic" interviews with a prominent contemporary cardman (I'm afraid I can't remember who it was) who spoke of taking several years of paid lessons from his mentor early in their relationship. He also spoke of having to earn the right to so much as a paid lesson, much less unpaid tutelage.

Point being: very often, paid lessons are the only way to mentorship.

I absolutely disagree. It may "introduce" you to someone who could be your mentor, but mentors don't take money.

In my opinion, you don't find a mentor. A mentor finds you.

You also don't pay a mentor. He does it for many reasons, but if someone takes money for it, that most often becomes the primary motive.

A good mentor teaches you things when you're ready to learn them.
If you're paying him, he has to work on a set schedule.

A good mentor takes the time. If it takes 20 hours to teach you something, he'll do it. If you're paying him, he can't do that-- it'll look like he's just trying to increase his fee or he'll feel guilty because he knows he won't have the time to teach you properly... money greatly complicates the relationship.

I'm not knocking taking lessons from a good teacher-- that's a good thing. I'm saying that a paid instructor and a mentor are two very different things. I believe that the only way for a paid instructor to transition to a mentor is to stop taking money for the "lessons".

YMMV

SEY

Paid teachers can and often do go beyond the time paid for. "Not mutually exclusive" seems the most sensible, least dogmatic assessment.

I'm not trying to be dogmatic. I'm just saying that if you're paid, then that's the main factor that drives and limits the relationship. That's my view. Your mileage may vary.

SEY