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Salguod Nairb
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I've always thought doing away with POV's and making public transportation the only option to be a good idea. Accidents (drug related or otherwise) would drop by at least 90%. In the late 80's Seattle had an excellent bus system. Not sure how it stands today.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
critter
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I don't think I've ever ridden the bus in Seattle, but I've ridden the monorail. It was fun.
My best friend lives there and rides the bus to work most of the time. Takes him a couple of hours as I recall. Me, I wouldn't be able to stand it. If I rode the bus to school it would take about an hour and a half to two hours with stops and transfers. Whereas to drive takes about 25 minutes. People say "do homework on the bus" but I wouldn't. I'd fall asleep. I'd never have time to do anything.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
critter
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Hmmm... perhaps the monorail isn't all it's cracked up to be:
Quote:
Accidents





Aftermath of the 2005 collision, the train on the right was approaching the station, and should have yielded
On July 25, 1971, a brake failure on the red train resulted in it striking the girder at the end of the track in the Seattle Center station, causing injuries to 26 passengers.[3]

On May 31, 2004, a fire broke out on the monorail with 150 people aboard. Five passengers were taken to the hospital with minor injuries.[4]

On November 26, 2005, the two trains clipped one another on a curve, shearing a door off one train. Two people were hospitalized with minor injuries. Poor design and driver error were blamed for the crash;[5][6][7] in 1988, the space between the monorail tracks had been reduced at the southern end of the line to make room for the new Westlake Center, effectively making gauntlet/interlaced track.


From the Wikipedia.
Here's a link to a scary-ass picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seattl......dent.jpg
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-06-06 21:46, Al Angello wrote:
Lobo
How do you suppose all those illegal shops stay in business?

How many legal or illegal medical marijuana shops are in the Los Angeles area?

Try to give me a straight answer counselor.


I don't know how many illegal ones.

Zero legal ones.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
GlenD
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LOL
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
Al Angello
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Your honor I want the court to make note that I'm dealing with a hostile witness.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-06-07 01:26, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-06 21:46, Al Angello wrote:
Lobo
How do you suppose all those illegal shops stay in business?

How many legal or illegal medical marijuana shops are in the Los Angeles area?

Try to give me a straight answer counselor.


I don't know how many illegal ones.

Zero legal ones.

If there are none, then why are people protesting this preliminary ordinance today?

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/06/0......nsaries/

BTW, the article says there are still a little over 100 licensed dispensaries in LA.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-06-07 09:06, Al Angello wrote:
Your honor I want the court to make note that I'm dealing with a hostile witness.


Al, listen to me. Seriously. Put down the bong and pay attention. I'm saying it as simply as I can, and it's accurate. Every single one is operating illegally.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-06-07 09:49, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-07 01:26, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2012-06-06 21:46, Al Angello wrote:
Lobo
How do you suppose all those illegal shops stay in business?

How many legal or illegal medical marijuana shops are in the Los Angeles area?

Try to give me a straight answer counselor.


I don't know how many illegal ones.

Zero legal ones.

If there are none, then why are people protesting this preliminary ordinance today?

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/06/0......nsaries/

BTW, the article says there are still a little over 100 licensed dispensaries in LA.


For the same reason that people protested Arizona's immigration bill.

Interesting reading (particularly Thomas's strong dissent): http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?c......scholarr
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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"For the same reason that people protested Arizona's immigration bill."

I'm sorry, but that is too cryptic a response for me. I'm not sure what you mean.

Are there about 100 licensed (doesn't that imply legal in some sense?) dispensaries in LA as the article reports, or not? Are you saying that those licensed dispensaries are not legal? You mean according to federal law?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-06-07 10:21, balducci wrote:
"For the same reason that people protested Arizona's immigration bill."

I'm sorry, but that is too cryptic a response for me. I'm not sure what you mean.

Are there about 100 licensed (doesn't that imply legal in some sense?) dispensaries in LA as the article reports, or not? Are you saying that those licensed dispensaries are not legal? You mean according to federal law?


That's correct; they're all in violation of federal law, and the Supreme Court has already ruled that, "But it's not against state law" is no defense.

Arizona sought (seeks) not to newly criminalize behaviors, but to make them illegal at the state level as well, which would bring about greater enforcement with respect to already-illegal things. For instance, much was made of the Arizona law's requirement that legal resident aliens carry their Alien Registration Cards ("Green Cards"); however, it is already federal law that they do so.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
critter
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I was never worried about people having to carry their green cards. What I was worried about was the possibility of: "Hey, you have brown skin, show me your green card!"
Not too far-fetched seeing as we used to do it to Chinese people. And who knows where it will stop? We went pretty far with our efforts to eliminate the "Yellow Peril." Where do we draw the line to make sure it doesn't happen again?

Ugh. Don't really want to go down this road again. Just something to consider.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Woland
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I loved it when a waiter told me that he could not serve me a hamburger cooked "medium rare." But medical marijuana was OK in that state.

O tempora! O mores!
Al Angello
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Lobo
Your blank statements does have many holes in it. Thank you Balducci for pointing out some of those biased flaws.

Lobo
Why does it take a man from Canada to point out to you what is happening in your own neighborhood?
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
landmark
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Quote:
On 2012-06-07 11:04, critter wrote:
I was never worried about people having to carry their green cards. What I was worried about was the possibility of: "Hey, you have brown skin, show me your green card!"
Not too far-fetched seeing as we used to do it to Chinese people. And who knows where it will stop? We went pretty far with our efforts to eliminate the "Yellow Peril." Where do we draw the line to make sure it doesn't happen again?

Ugh. Don't really want to go down this road again. Just something to consider.

I agree with you 100%.
tommy
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No one shoild be allowed to drive without being stoned.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-06-07 11:48, Al Angello wrote:
Lobo
Your blank statements does have many holes in it. Thank you Balducci for pointing out some of those biased flaws.

Lobo
Why does it take a man from Canada to point out to you what is happening in your own neighborhood?


Al-

You're coming off as a bit of a buffoon here. It's ok to be ignorant about a subject that is outside your area of expertise; however, when you insist on "correcting" someone in his own field, when you've been told unequivocally that your position is mistaken, and given a citation to refer to, at some point you might want to wake up and reconsider.

My "bias" isn't showing here; my education and professional experience is. I'm not sure what bias you're referring to, actually, since, as I have stated in this thread, I'm in favor of the legalization of marijuana.

As a relatively (2007) recent graduate of one of the top law schools in the country;
As an attorney, and moreover;
As an attorney who has been asked to consult on the possible opening of a medical marijuana dispensary in California-

You're simply wrong. NO medical marijuana facility in the country is operating legally. Period.

Again, recommended reading: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?c......scholarr

Or the Wikipedia summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich

Amusingly (to me, anyway), it was that most-hated-by-liberals Justice, Clarence Thomas (ok, you could make a case for Scalia) who most vehemently argued in favor of the marijuana user in this case, but he was outvoted.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Woland
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Thanks, Lobo. Justice Thomas's dissent on this case was lapidary.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2012-06-05 13:13, LobowolfXXX wrote:

Oh, good...we're still friends, Al, because you don't have any idea what you are talking about. At least with respect to the statement "All police need for a blood test is suspicion." That is a flat-out, 100% incorrect statement of constitutional law. What they need for a blood test is probable cause, which is a significantly higher standard than suspicion (even "reasonable particularized suspicion," which is the standard for other things).

Isn't it more the case that they require probable cause in order for the results of a blood test to be meaningful and be permissible in court etc.?

But for an officer to actually make you take a blood test, surely all he needs (in a practical versus a legal sense) is suspicion? Or even just a desire to send a message to you? I admit, I may misunderstand the process.

Anyway, I was reminded of your post just now because of this story in the news:

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpa......he_p.php
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-06-08 13:09, balducci wrote:
Isn't it more the case that they require probable cause in order for the results of a blood test to be meaningful and be permissible in court etc.?

But for an officer to actually make you take a blood test, surely all he needs (in a practical versus a legal sense) is suspicion? Or even just a desire to send a message to you? I admit, I may misunderstand the process.



I'm not sure what you mean by "in a practical versus a legal sense." I guess in a practical sense, he doesn't "need" anything - if they're going to force a test on you, they're going to force a test on you. However, if they lack probable cause, which is a term of art and a higher standard than "reasonable suspicion," then they're in violation of your 4th Amendment Constitutional rights.

One consequence of that constitutional violation is that evidence obtained thereby (subject to a couple of possible exceptions) cannot be used against you (the "Exclusionary Rule"), but that's not quite the same as saying they only need probable cause for it to be admissible. They need probable cause to take the test. A blood test is a search or seizure within the meaning of the 4th Amendment. The very act of taking blood in the first place is itself a constitutional violation, in the absence of probable cause.

Now for the caveat - drunk driving is a state law offense, and individual states may have case or statutory law to the contrary. I don't know if the Supreme Court has ruled on this issue specifically. However, "probable cause" is the explicit standard in the vast majority of states, and I'd give 10-1 odds that the Supreme Court would rule against any state that purports not to have a probable cause requirement. It's just blatant. I'd give even money that it would be a unanimous decision that a blood test without probable cause is unconstitutional.

That "vast majority of states" includes Al's state, by the way. Pennsylvania cops need probable cause to draw your blood. And if medical personnel draw your blood for purely medical reasons, the police need probable cause just to obtain the results:

http://www.aopc.org/OpPosting/Supreme/out/J82A-1999mo.pdf
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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