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Decomposed
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On 2012-06-11 11:16, Potty the Pirate wrote:
I'm afraid I don't get it either. Fristly, the presentation was way too slow for inclusion in any kind of act - perhaps showing it one-on-one it might be OK. This just looks like two comic books stuck together, one inside the other. The thing about the colouring book is that you flick through ALL the pages (not just some of them) from beginning to end. I guess this Superman version might fool some kids, but not really sure about that. I thought the handling was suspicious - bending the pages back on themselves,to display a single page, then opening them out again halfway through.
I think the premise is great - as kids love Superman and Batman. But this would open a whole other can of worms if this is released as an effect, since the characters are copyrighted, and viciously protected.
No reason why someone shouldn't make up their own prop, using the traditional method. The cover change could be accomplished in a number of ways.
Sorry to be so negative, but I didn't find this exciting at all.


But look at the premise Potty, the originality of Batman into Superman. Once you give it some thought you will see it from layman side.


Kriptonite Smile Still wrong, too tired to google it. Smile
GaryLee
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Considering Superman is trademarked and copyrighted protected, I assume you have legal permission to use Superman from DC comics.
MR Effecto
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Quote:
On 2012-06-11 11:16, Potty the Pirate wrote:
I'm afraid I don't get it either. Fristly, the presentation was way too slow for inclusion in any kind of act - perhaps showing it one-on-one it might be OK. This just looks like two comic books stuck together, one inside the other. The thing about the colouring book is that you flick through ALL the pages (not just some of them) from beginning to end. I guess this Superman version might fool some kids, but not really sure about that. I thought the handling was suspicious - bending the pages back on themselves,to display a single page, then opening them out again halfway through.
I think the premise is great - as kids love Superman and Batman. But this would open a whole other can of worms if this is released as an effect, since the characters are copyrighted, and viciously protected.
No reason why someone shouldn't make up their own prop, using the traditional method. The cover change could be accomplished in a number of ways.
Sorry to be so negative, but I didn't find this exciting at all.


I was thinking the same. Did nothing for me. Sorry.
GaryLee
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I had to go back and watch the demo again because I didn't catch anything the first time. It was very hard to watch him slowly flip through pages of nothing happening. No build up to the trick at all. I didn't even know what to look for. I noticed the Superman pages in the Batman comic but just thought DC comics did other one of their double comic book editions where they have two DC characters in one comic book.

I'd be careful of breaking any of DC Comics trademarks or copyright. Like Potty said, they are very aggressive when it comes to protecting their property. But, I'm pretty sure permission was requested. Who would dare to infringe on DC Comics trademark and copyrights?
Potty the Pirate
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I'm pretty sure permission from DC Comics wasn't requested - as far as I'm aware, they would never give permission for this kind of product. If they did, they would release it through their own authorised agents.
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Well then, wouldn't that not only be illegal, but unethical of him to release this effect? I'm sure if David Regal was the owner of Superman, Dave would of been asked for permission, or a war would of broke out. But it seems the same people who cry foul about magicians stealing from magicians seem to think it's okay to steal from those outside of the magic community. Is it because the magic community flies so low beneath the radar they think they can get away with it? Or, are they just that uneducated?

I think this is the first thing that Morgan Strebler should address, because otherwise there could be serious consequences if this is released without legal consent of WB and DC Comics.
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You bring up a valid arguement. How do book test's get away with it?
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Book tests use public domain books.
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Quote:
On 2012-06-11 13:11, J.Prager wrote:
Book tests use public domain books.


I did not know that, thanks for clearing that up for me.
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No problem!

Here you can find almost every public domain book: http://www.gutenberg.org
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Potty the Pirate
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I'm fairly certain that some books which are not in the public domain have been used for book tests. And I know of some magic effects which evidently infringe copyright of big organisations. The simple fact is, that mostly, the bigger organisations don't become aware of these copyright issues, so no action is taken. And the REALLY big organisations (like DC Comics), have so many infringements to deal with, that they spent more time dealing with known culprits, than seeking out new ones.
But with the computer age comes a new level of awareness. Google Alerts will inform you of anything with certain keywords included, across the internet. I recommend all performers to set up a Google Alert for their stage name, for example (as I have done). Every time anyone types my stage name into a public forum, FB, or any public domain internet site, Google Alerts sends me an email with a link to the message. I'm quite sure that the big organisations now have Google Alerts set up for all their copyrighted characters. That means that DC Comics probably already have links to this thread. Whether or not anyone will actually follow the link, and read what is there, is another matter. "Superman" is probably typed in thousands of times every day, so there would be thousands of Alerts every day about "Superman". Add in all their other characters, and you can see that they probably only view a very small percentage of the total number of Google Alerts they receive every day.
But of course, it's a smoking gun....once you have posted something on the internet, it's there for all to see. The evidence can be used against you, if the copyright owners you are infringing uncover your messages.
And I know that DC comics fiercely protect the copyright of their characters. I have contacted them in the past to ask about using representations of their characters in my shows, and they sent me a courteous, but definitive and scary reply, warning me that I should "cease and desist" any intention to incorporate their characters into my shows. They also pointed me to their authorised agents, and told me that ONLY these agents had permission to use their copyrighted images and characters for financial gain.
Potty
GaryLee
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Well, there is the chance that Morgan Strebler does not know this, and I think this will be very benificial to Morgan, as I'm sure he doesn't want to do anything unethical or illegal. It's one of those things where you have to give the other person the benifit of the doubt until they are made aware of it.
Decomposed
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He will get a warning first before any legal action if there is a problem. I think.

Crap, it looks pretty good and after all the work put into it.

Asking for forgiveness is easier right?

He may have permission, no one knows for sure. Most do not think of these legal issues when they see something neat come out like this.


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Disclaimer: I am not an attorney however, I had some criminal justice classes in my GED classes. But that was long ago.
Potty the Pirate
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I'm sure Morgan has the best intentions. I would not want to discourage ANYONE from wanting to be creative in Magic. But this concept, unfortunately, is not only dangerous to pursue, but it's really not that great an effect (in my opinion).
I would hope that Morgan realises that it wouldn't be too clever to put this effect out, he won't make any significant dollar, and could end up in very hot water. What he has done so far, is to put his idea up on a forum, and been given (in my opinion) sensible and good advice. That is a very good thing. He should learn from this, and hopefully, go on to develop some more great ideas. He's a thinker, and eager to advance the Art of Magic. That is highly commendable.
So good luck, Morgan, I like that you want to share your ideas - but you have to realise that you have to be a little more creative, and can't piggy-back on the shoulders of giants to quite this extent.
In magic, plagiarism is common, and virtually accepted. Most magicians can be approached, and are willing to allow others to develop their ideas and concepts, in the interests of our Art. But big organisations like DC Comics are not so easy: unless you come up with something great, which they think is beneficial to their copyrights, they will come down like a ton of bricks.
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For a pirate, you don't have much buccaneering spirit, Potty.

P.S. AHAAARGH!!

P.P.S. I'm guessing if one made this prop and used it in close up performance, nobody would give a rat's a** about its dubious use of DC images.
Decomposed
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Quote:
On 2012-06-11 17:02, Potty the Pirate wrote:
I'm sure Morgan has the best intentions. I would not want to discourage ANYONE from wanting to be creative in Magic. But this concept, unfortunately, is not only dangerous to pursue, but it's really not that great an effect (in my opinion).
I would hope that Morgan realises that it wouldn't be too clever to put this effect out, he won't make any significant dollar, and could end up in very hot water. What he has done so far, is to put his idea up on a forum, and been given (in my opinion) sensible and good advice. That is a very good thing. He should learn from this, and hopefully, go on to develop some more great ideas. He's a thinker, and eager to advance the Art of Magic. That is highly commendable.
So good luck, Morgan, I like that you want to share your ideas - but you have to realise that you have to be a little more creative, and can't piggy-back on the shoulders of giants to quite this extent.
In magic, plagiarism is common, and virtually accepted. Most magicians can be approached, and are willing to allow others to develop their ideas and concepts, in the interests of our Art. But big organisations like DC Comics are not so easy: unless you come up with something great, which they think is beneficial to their copyrights, they will come down like a ton of bricks.


Boy, all kidding aside, you are making a lot of sense. It looks like a great trick but wondering about all the litigation problems if they decide to cause problems. Just look at how You Tube searches out every video posted now, its incredible how they detect even a sample of anything copyrighted.
tomsk192
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If a pamphlet or PDF was produced, indicating the engineering of two magazines, or possibly three, then the choice would be up to the performer. I couldn't foresee a problem in that scenario. If there was a suggestion to make your own comic books included, then really....
Decomposed
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Now is the time to support Morgan. He is one of the most creative minds in magic and is no longer performing. Hopefully he will work out the legalities of this piece and get it on the market. What'd ya'll say?
Potty the Pirate
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Quote:
On 2012-06-11 19:43, tomsk192 wrote:
If a pamphlet or PDF was produced, indicating the engineering of two magazines, or possibly three, then the choice would be up to the performer. I couldn't foresee a problem in that scenario. If there was a suggestion to make your own comic books included, then really....

That's a perfect solution. No mention need be made of any specific characters or comic books. And if a performer were to make up their own prop, it's highly unlikely that they would get into trouble for that. I still suspect that it might be infringing copyright, but this is a much greyer area.
I don't intend to be mean-spirited at all. But I'm just pointing out the potential outcome of advertising and selling a product called "Superman" which uses Superman and Batman comic books.
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I am positive as long as Morgan is not copying and printing these comic books out himself there is no copyright violation. You can buy a Superman costume and wear it around your block to the supermarket if you wish. Just go to Freemont Street in Vegas and you will see hundreds of costume characters of all kinds. They purchased those costumes and can wear them to church if they wanted and yes they can even make a living posing as these characters. They can't however make their own costumes and use Trademarked insignia's and symbols. But as long as Morgan is buying the comic books. He can cut them up and glue them together to his hearts content. He can even resell what he made. Just like if you purchase a comic book, you can resell it even if you mutilate it by spilling coffee on it. He just can't make an original comic book and call it Superman. Folks playing cards of all brands are have copyrights as well but we mutilate these every kind of way and sell the tricks. Yes sometimes we strike a deal with the US Playing Card Company to print them for us but if the trick does not need printing then we can do with them what we please. We just can't use their designs and claim them as our own to resell a deck of cards. The one thing that might get Morgan into hot water is calling the trick "Superman" but that has nothing to with copyright, that is trademark infringement. If he calls the trick "The Comic Book Trick" and purchases previously written comic books and does not print them himself and call them original works, he is not in violation of copyright infringement.
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