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Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts 
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On 2012-06-23 12:15, The Great Zucchini wrote: Yes” The Great” I totally agree with your concept of making yourself a person, not just an entertainer; I do it all the time; I meet a mom and a kid while I’m out and talk to the parent about the kid, the store, or whatever the subject may be, at the end I say something like I love other peoples kids and perform magic to entertain them; they will ask a question about it and I hand them a card, or whatever handout I am giving out at the time. I am now a person, not someone that comes to a home does a show, stands in a corner to get money and runs out the door It works great |
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Red Shadow  Inner circle 1788 Posts
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There is a massive cultural difference between how clients see children entertainers in the uk and how other countries see them. The scenarios I gave above happened a long time ago and it's been a while since anything like that happened. I agree with your theory, but the fact is in this country - all magicians no matter how good you are, are seen as children's entertainers and clowns and thrown upon.
If you want proof of that, just look at a tv show called Britain's got talent, which in this country belittles every magician, where on americas got talent they are admired. Even our biggest name at the moment 'dynamo' is categorised as a children's show and watched primarily by kids. But to look at him, you wouldn't even place him in that category. But this country sees all magic acts as something for the kids. You can do an adult show, with all adult theme tricks - but someone always comes up afterwards and ask them 'if they do kids parties' as that's just the country we live in and how they see our profession. Steve |
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Cheshire Cat Special user Wilmslow, UK 941 Posts
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Re: USA "Megan's List": I do not believe that the European Bill of Human Rights would ever let this happen here Howie. We have "Sarah's Law" which was actually based on the Megan Case. Sarah Payne was a lovely little girl sadly murdered as Megan Kanka was. But the Law is still limited. Every entertainer should by now have submitted to a Criminal Records Bureau check which was brought in for workers with children and vulnerable adults by the Blair Government. It is however basically flawed as it can only check on previous convictions. So an entertainer can have a clean record and then commit an offence at some future date.
From our perspective it is probably absurdly a fact of life without any disrespect to others, that we have parents who are naturally drawn to booking a husband and wife for entertainment as opposed to single males. We used to work separately between 1994 and about 2006 and the preference for the lady was starting to show in our diary. We both find it incredibly easy now in any case being two of us working together at parties. Sue was finding the physical strain of loading/unloading and driving in all weathers too much to cope with as well. So yes, returning to topic, I guess every party we do we are double booked now - with each other 
Just to pick up on the last gentleman's post, - yes, it is a sad fact of life in Britain that almost any form of "live entertainment" is classed as "cheesy" and open to ridicule. It seems a British illness, a sort of anti-talent movement. We visit relatives in Spain where live entertainment is highly regarded still, but even the working men's clubs in Britain have now faded into insignificance, - places where at one time singers, comedy acts AND magicians always found work. So where does an adult audience magic act find work in Britain now? Table hopping at weddings, maybe an occasional Masonic Function, anniversary party etc. The same applies to musicians - pianists and keyboard players you would think would be the last to be out of work - but I certainly could not make a living out of this these days! 35 years ago I was in incredible demand. Tony |
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The Great Zucchini Inner circle 1347 Posts
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I find this topic interesting-first of all, do any of you get deposits for your parties. I won't do a bday party without one. I use square, and put the number right into my phone, boom, party is booked. Steve, I hear what your sayin', however, I'm going to respectfully disagree. I hear the cultural black and white philosophies and I'm just not sure it applies to children's entertainers.
For example, it's only the past year or so, that I've started coming on these forums, the Bistro, which I love, and here-and one thing I've seen is that some people believe that our cultures can define what time of entertainer we are. I read that someone thought my style was more in the Brittish idea of performing. I've never even heard of this. Either we can perform or we can't, it doesn't matter where we're from. In every country in the world, we have terrible performers and great ones. TO your point, I get what you're saying, people here also will associate children's performers, with being odd, strange, a dork, whatever, it's the perception. Here, they also, will think how can people possibly make a living at it. How can we approach women and say what we do, etc. I hear you. It's everywhere, not just London. My point is that you can chance the perception, because I did. Like Howie said, be real, be human. I've said this before, but I'm greeted with hugs quite often, like their greeting a friend. I live in a big country, and so do you, I believe that what we do is left to the individual, and not the culture, and where we're performing. Let's talk about your acheivements for a second, which I think are remarkable. I'm way to lazy to do 17 books, etc. Congrats. Parents need to know about this stuff. When I'm talking to the parents, in conversational type of way, I let them know- "It was cool, just did a show last week, like 400 people there', and tell them something funny about it, but what you're doing is a type of branding, that is always reminding them the demand to see you. If you have someone prominent at your show, that comes out when I'm talking to people. Parents talk to each other. "Hey did you hear Sasha Obama was at The Great Zucchini's show'? My point is that people will know, but you have to talk about these things, don't get in the car right away, because then they won't know you. |
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Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts
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Tony;
In the USA, citizens do not have the ability to submit themselves to a background check to obtain a certificate and prove that they do not have a history of criminal activity. Certain states criminal records are public and anyone can pay a fee and obtain your history California does not make criminal records public and only law enforcement and government agencies have access to your criminal record, so the normal children’s entertainer does not have the ability to advertise and prove they are not criminals. I posses a Federal Firearms Licenses; to obtain this document I had to undergo a very comprehensive background check, both state and federal since this licenses permits me to buy firearms direct from the manufacture by the truck load if I desired. If the parents are concerned and I’m asked, I inform the parents about the licenses to demonstrate that my record is spotless, and it works every time |
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts
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To answer some of the Zucchini’s questions.
1. I do not take deposits. I have lost more bookings from asking for them than they have helped. Literally, they have cost me work and so I only ever ask for a deposit when it’s a distance away or on a special day like Christmas. 2. I can’t mingle with the parents after the show, as usually I have another show to get to and I have three or four shows in a day all tightly scheduled one after the other. Also, it would be improper for me to do so in this country. As I mentioned earlier, the general parents mentality about our business is that we are the hired help. You can fight that off course, but I would rather them be happy with my job and book me for their child’s party, rather than try to have morale ethical debate with them or change their view points of life. I just don’t have the time and most people’s opinion on anything is so strong that no amount of talking will change it, especially when you have just proven everything they were thinking by entertaining the kids for the last two hours! 3. Your style is not like the UK style. It’s been mentioned before in regards to costume and set-up etc. how different we are. I think we can agree that your style and methods are your own, it works for you but it wouldn’t work in this country. 4. In regards to be treated differently, the ethnic background of the client can play a big part of it. When I perform at Asian parties, I am asked to sit down and eat a meal with them. For those parties I am well respected and treated well as that is their culture and how they appreciate all special guests. When I’m working to some Jewish community groups, I really am the dirt in the mud. I am thrown in the corner of the room, left there with no adults, with all the kids watching me set up while they try and steal my props. When working for a normal birthday party, the parents will stay at the party up until the age of 5. At the age of six, they all ‘dump em and leave em’. But for those parents that do stay, the clients talk to them and make friends with them. I never ever tell them to shut up or be quiet. I let them be as loud as they want. I know most parents don’t have many friends, or the ability to socialise. And if meeting other parents at this party will help them get a social life and meet new people – then I’m all for it. I don’t ask them to be quiet and watch the show, because frankly compared to the possibility of improving their quality of life, my show is meaningless. I’m there to entertain the children and I can do that while they talk. So perhaps I’m not changing their minds on how they look at me as an entertainer. But I am helping them with their social lives, whether they know it or not. That I feel is more important to them and so I make it important for me. Steve |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts
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I am more of the Zucchini approach. I demand a certain level of respect. I will not permit adults to talk during my show - there are always other rooms in the house. I have yet to play a one-room house. I remember one woman booking me and referring to my 'little show'. I pointed out that it was the best show in the region, and that her tone was derogatory. A few minutes later she again referred to my 'little show'. I cancelled the booking.
Normally I am a very agreeable man. But I am never the hired help.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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The Great Zucchini Inner circle 1347 Posts
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Steve, with all due respect, my style would work in any country in the world. That's not just me, it's anyone's style, if you don't treat yourself like hired help, they won't treat you that way either. Do you know why my style would work anywhere? It's because before my style here, there wasn't my style here. My point is that before James Bond, there wasn't James Bond. Before Dominos pizza, we had no dominos.
You can be your own original person, if you can entertain, and brand yourself properly, anywhere in the world it work. Culture has nothing, nothing, and nothing to do with it. I promise you this. Have you ever seen David Copperfield? He wears jeans and a black shirt. He wears no top hat. Look, he's a brand. I've been told my style is in the Brittish way of performing because I aim for the laugh first, trick second, and apparently Mark Lewis once said he thinks it's what the Brittish performers do, etc, he's sees my show in that light. Lack of costume is not part of it, but before I decided to do, it wasn't heard of to not wear an outfit, but I branded myself anyway. It would work anywhere. You don't believe it works in England, because of the way these parents view you, so you believe it's unheard of to chit chat with parents, and they think of you as just the help, and there's nothing you can do about it, not true. This is all you've know, so you assume, it's the way. I respect the fact that you have to go to another party, I do 7 or 8 shows a weekend, but when planning, I make sure to plan 15 minutes to hang out before jumping in the car. This is something I preach, and most people don't do. It's imperative, not in America, anywhere. They don't know you, before you leave. I do public shows, where 400 people will come out to see me, and these are kids that have seen many, many times. I tell you this, because they have a sense of a certain relationship with me. You create fans when they have this sense of who you are. When you do a public show, your name, and not a magician then is on the marquee. As far as the parties go, if you treat it like theatre, they will see it that way. My parents socialize tons at my parties, however, it's in another room, or they wait til I'm done. They don't want to miss any of the funny comments the kids make, they belly laughter, etc. I don't want them to miss it either, howver, some like to chit chat, that's fine, just not near the show. I also do 45 minute parties, less than you, but I were you, I'd do a tad less than 2 hours, so you can talk to people. Right now, you're just sort of a robot to them, not a real person. Humanize yourself for a year. Watch how your treated. If I moved to England tomorrow, you're right, I'd get looks my first few months, maybe 7 or 8 months, while I was branding myself, and becoming popular with the kids. I'd stick to my guns, and I'd would get away with everything I get away with here, because before I did it here, no one ever did, it this way either. You have to change the mold of how your looked at, and it doesn't matter where your from. Also, you letting parents talk as loud as they want, I'm sorry but I'm baffled by this. How will these parents ever separate you from anyone else they've seen. They need to be a part of the experience. You think you're getting booked because you let the parents talk. I've been invited back to homes, where I've asked the hosts to talk in another room. I'm asked to eat weather their Jewish, Christian, whatever. You saying there's a difference in that, I mean, let's agree on this, that we have different diversities in both our countries. I'm treated the same by all of them. Do you know why? I've demanded it, and don't look at myself as hired help. You won't be dirt in the mud, as you put it, but let these people get to know you. Now, costumes are fine for people. I've also noticed that you wear different ones sometimes for different themes. You can do this, but you won't brand yourself very well this way. Wear one costume, even if them change. Let them get to know that same person. |
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts
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Can't be bothered replying.
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts
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Quote:
On 2012-06-25 22:59, The Great Zucchini wrote: I agree. Always be yourself. When I entered the "buskers forum" a few years ago, they advised me not to wear my two piece suits I usually wear. I wanted to perform in a relaxing manner so I decided to be myself. I would feel uncomfortable wearing a derby hat and leather vest with blue jeans. It came out successful for me becoming a busker. Some were happy and amazed I accomplished my mission so fast by the photos and videos I showed. Some were just jealous, and insisted what I wore was wrong while street busking. |
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AndyLuka Elite user Milwaukee, Wisconsin 440 Posts
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On 2012-06-25 22:59, The Great Zucchini wrote: Very Nice Advice
Making Magic and Fantasy a reality in a world where our reality can sometimes be rather cruel
Http://www.lukamagic.com -That's Me Http://www.deceptionsmke -My Show |
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Posted: Jun 23, 2012 05:27 pm 
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