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MagicBrain New user 63 Posts |
... as for the dvd themselves, now all major magic dealer in the USA has them in stock.
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jedoonatmagic Loyal user FL/residing temp. TX 228 Posts |
Totally agree with ya Doug B.!! Sleeving is a bit of a lost art. But for arguement sake, I think most try to eliminate the whole "its up the sleeve" comments. Honestly though, I think its important to learn multitude of techniques, for all the different occasions you may encounter. As for formal wear, be smart about it! At a minimum, wear a sports coat/blazer, slacks, and dress shoes. The shirt can vary, but nothing else! Keep it classy guys!
And now about DVDs... I've just recieved my copy today from MJM. I haven't totally watched the whole thing, but I went through all the routine and technique performances. And I breifly went through some explanations. There are quite a few things that I do like, and there are some things that I'll probably never use. The routines that are on Disc 1, most of them are totally doable and they will get some good reactions. Along with the first disc, you will find a lot os sleeving. That is completely fine by me. As long as the technique enhances the magic, it is then acceptable. In which this case, it is. The 2nd disc, techniques and bonuses, on this disc there are a handful of good ideas. And you can use some of those ideas for "quick tricks." Though some can be picked and used for some routines that you may already do. There are also some flashy fire work here as well. If you are a pyro like me, some of the tips and trick with fire here will make you happy. **The Good** The entire project as a whole is a good package. I think it has a little something for everyone. Most of the sleights and techniques used are not THAT rough. With good practice, everything on the DVD is obtainable. I also recommend that you DO give everything on the DVDs a try. If anything, new ideas may spawn from practice. **The Bad** If there's one thing that have been bugging me the most about some new releases, and foreign magician's DVDs. I can't really stand silent teaching!! I understand the language barrier, but I really wish that most would find a translator to overdub the video and have verbal explanations. To me...., if I wanted to teach someone a trick. I would want to teach it to them properly by showing them AND verbally guiding through each step. Maybe its just me, but that's how I feel about the silent treatment. The other negative thing is of course the thing that everyone has been talking about here, the title. And I know what I've said before about the title, that I can careless about it. I get that the guys are trying to have fun with the project. BUT..., when you add a young lady with skimpy articles of clothing, that may be questionable for the younger crowd (warning for parents), that's pushing it a bit. Also, expect more of the f-word floating around...in text. Look..., I get it. Play in the project...using taboo words,all in fun right? But come on guys...., was it all really necessary?? All in all, you can go ahead and treat this as a PG-13 set of DVDs, if you are a parent. If you like good coin magic, and some fresh ideas...go ahead and pick the DVDs up. Good contents for the money. Oh...., by the way....no, I will not say that this THE best DVD over the big names of coin magic. It's a good DVD set, but is not better than the giants in coin magic. I hope that my not so long review will be helpful for all that are curious. If you have any other questions about the DVDs let me know, I'll try my best to get some answers for you. TJ
One for the money...., 2 for a pass..., 3 for a Fly..., and 4 for matrix!
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Mb217 Inner circle 9530 Posts |
Good rundown TJ, thanks.
I like the sl**ving stuff because I happen to admire good technique as to this sort of usage. I remember Platt did a bit of it on his first DVD, all without a jacket, so it can be done different ways to great magical appeal. Quick question, while I wouldn't put this amongst some of the more "giant" coin DVDs out there either, but what then are your thoughts as to a DVD like Sick by Ponta The Smith? There are no foul words, and actually there are no words, so it is the "silent treatment" as you say in the teaching. Personally, I can take either which way as long as it's done well. I think it was done pretty good in Sick with loads of angles and re-shows, etc., so I thought it was fresh and creatively effective. I also would actually put Sick among the best coin DVDs out there, right there with the "Giants." First off, he's as good as any of them and actually, technically better than most and refreshingly unique IMHO. Heck, I would say they all could learn a lot from what Sick was all about. All of the sudden, Palms of Steel or Coins on Edge stuff didn't seem all that hard anymore, sorta. Levels! And that particular standard as to Ponta came out of nowhere, wouldn't you say? Never heard any of the big boys talk about Ponta before (did you?), though they did help present another bristling wit of coin magic in Giacomo Bertini, who also brought a special uniqueness and further elegance to the art way beyond how it is more regularly done. Anyway, just looking for your thoughts here and I do respect others opinions on things. I understand we all have different views and appreciations. Funny, while I would immediately say that few have shown themselves to be as technically adepth at such creative, fluid coin magic as Ponta, but as to presentation and a more complete package, I would also say that few stand in the same circle as Eric Jones IMHO, including Ponta. Still, I enjoy them all as they all bring a lot to the table for us, and I agree with you as you have pointed out, that this new DVD has something worthwhile to offer as well. And to be fair, personally, I have rarely seen a DVD where I liked absolutely everything about it, from the big, small and all of it out there. Good talk.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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SmileAndNod Veteran user 316 Posts |
MB, honestly this DVD is less about learning technique and more about learning ideas. There are very few "replays" or in-depth explanations.
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jconstantine Special user Long Island New York 566 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-27 11:22, Philtrum wrote: I'm a parent and I applaud this man! It is the sole responsibility of ME the parent not to shield my child from all of the awful things but to explain to them why they are awful and why they should not do or say such awful things. I swear people just want to feed and clothe their children and let everyone else raise them (schools television fireman policeman strangers in public). All have to take responsibility for what kids see? BS it is only the parents problem no key else.
Misdirect yourself regularly before you attempt to misdirect others!!!
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PhilMagicGuy New user 24 Posts |
Personally, I've never understood the problem with curse words, except that there is a problem with curse words.
Someone once gave me a really good counter argument to this that I truly respected -- evidently though, not enough that I can remember it, but I'm open to being reminded of it. Anyway, in general opinion (at least in my neck of the woods) "screw it", "screw off" or even "let's have sex" are perfectly fine terms that don't require censoring and wouldn't offend. So why does a word that means the exact same thing offend? Why can I say poop and not that other word? Why can I say darned and not... that other word? The only reason I can think of (and again, someone countered this once, I just can't remember how...!) is that society says they're bad words. If we just collectively say there are no more bad words, then no one could possible use bad words. As in those above examples, taking saying you can't say F*** or S*** or D*** doesn't prevent people from expressing the same things they would otherwise. All that being said, whether I agree with it or not, I do respect society's standards and make a good effort not to use such words. Should the creators of this DVD followed the same protocol? I'm not going to judge. Do they cause any harm by using this title? I can't imagine how, except from the view of it being one more drop in the bucket in a world where said bucket is largely unwanted. And all THAT being said, this is a MAGIC forum, so I'm hesitant to hit submit and contribute to this discussion... but, I've come this far, so... |
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ljsviol Veteran user 345 Posts |
I received an email from Penguin Magic today; they seem to be selling these DVDs under the title "Freaking Coins":
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/2904 The email contains a warning that the DVDs contain language that may be offensive to some. Larry S. (This is not meant to be a plug for Penguin or the DVD; I haven't seen it yet.) |
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algebraic Inner circle 1008 Posts |
I saw the childish title ,then looked at the picture .
I didn't even bother to read the description on the dvd, nor do I intend to. Titles and pictures like this only reinforce some people's thoughts that magic is for kids. It's too bad. If the material is any good, than why not market it towards a mature market. This looks like it belongs in the "pay per view" section. Who would want to book this act with this type of marketing? Would a professional magician send their marketing materials to potential clients this way? One look and I'll bet it goes into the trash. My former marketing professor would use this as an example of how not to market material. Business 101- this gets an "F". |
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trear New user 11 Posts |
But with that, this DVD is quite famous. And attracts customers. That's the point. Now, everyone knows this DVD and the two magicians from Belgium.
So, it could deserves an A. |
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algebraic Inner circle 1008 Posts |
I'm sticking with material from the likes of Michael Rubinstein, David Roth, Michael Ammar,etc.
If you have to market your material with juvenile cover work to get attention, than that's their choice. It did attract my attention. It made me laugh at their immaturity to gain attention. If you showed a corporate client this cover material, I'm betting that the corporate client is more than mature enough to see this isn't someone they'd hire to market their product(s). Does it attract attention? Sure. It made me laugh at their immature marketing approach. I'll stick with the professionals listed above who are mature and professional in releasing their work. My 1st impression of these two was a lasting one. I'll look elsewhere for professional material. Their dvd isn't of interest to me. I'm sure this dvd cover will be well respected among all the female magicians. I think it's very insulting to all female magicians. Marketing something that insults half the population isn't "A" material in my book. |
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SmileAndNod Veteran user 316 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-25 07:37, algebraic wrote: It sold, therefore it would get an A. But on the degradation of woman that you seem so vehement about, how is this any worse than the assistants used by stage magicians. I bet you aren't so self-righteous about that and that has done so much more damage to the female magician community. I've tried to avoid this discussion but seriously? I don't care if they shipped it in a pile of poop. If it has good magic, that is all I care about. |
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algebraic Inner circle 1008 Posts |
"It sold, therefore it would get an A."
This has opened up a can of worms for many business practices. In the USA Today, "Bank of America Sued in Loan Case". "Federal prosecutors cite Hustle program in $1 billion civil suit." Hey, it sold so therefore it was an "A" for Bank of America. Now we'll see if they pay the price for their "A" work. As to stage magicians, that is THEIR call not mine. I wouldn't want my daughter dressed as a show girl. Assisants in my book, would be well dressed, to add to the show, not degrade the show. It's an individual call. As to, it sold, therefore it's an A. Please, how many investors lost their shirts/skirts to this type of sales pitch. Again, it's an individual call. I believe they should have used a more mature way to market their material. It degrades the art of magic. It only adds to magic being looked down upon in my opinion. |
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Bob Magic New user San Diego, California 90 Posts |
The 'most sensitive person' senario applies here. Once should define patter, language and descriptions so it does not offend the most sensitive person in the expected audience. The expected audience here is the entire magic community. Some, including myself were offended by with the combination of the words !@#$%^& and coins. A title should be appealing and this one failed miserably. Would I buy it? No, but for a different reason. I bought Ponta the Smith's 'Sick' which was also silent with no verbal descriptions and learned little so this one stays on the shelf.
-Bob Magic |
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Ken Abbott New user 100 Posts |
Some people use the F word routinely in their speech. Maybe they are ignorant of the fact that it offends others or maybe they just don't care. Surely, some who don't find the word offensive would feel differently if it referred to activity with their mother or it was directed at them personally. Maybe using the word directed at a coin would be less offensive. But, I think in the United States, the f word is one that generally is offensive by its nature. Why else would you use it? I don't care if those who are not offended buy hundreds of these DVD's. It's their right. I prefer to live my life by a different standard and find the word offensive. So, I won't buy the DVD and those marketing it won't get any of my money. My children and my friends won't see it sitting on my coffee table. Surely, no one should be offended by my choice.
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cougar261084 Elite user 460 Posts |
Look enough about the friggin title, it's a really good dvd, it teaches you how to light your thumb or fingers on fire without getting burned, how about that ey.
and there's a lot of good techniques on there |
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OZ_Muenster New user 17 Posts |
Quote: Hey, I have some more old crap for sale. Seems you are the right one for it.
On 2012-10-28 16:03, cougar261084 wrote: |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
On the use of f word and rude language:
Some magicians build a success including with the most prude spectators because their rude language is part of their character and they establish that character clearly enough so that the people who are likely to be offendded either don't go and see them somehow to laugh at themselves for a short period of time. One such example is Kent Gun's "blue" patter for his C&Bs. Another example slightly different because it doesn't concern language but reference to something that does offend some people is the Hobson egg bag: lots of people still consider that homosexuality isn't genetic (ne homosexual genes have been found in the genom), yet Hobson's character makes it acceptable even to many of such potential spectators. Now magicians that, out of character, sprinkle rude words are offending to a much larger audience than rogue or "out of the beaten path" character are generally offensive. What is their purpose (admitted or not)? They expect to break social barriers and speak like people speak in private (and yes they do -even women when they are between themselves and out of their "clean" social image-.) The problem is that, except for acted characters, a magic show is not, in essence, out of social rules or "intimate". Thus magicians that don't follow the social rules without making it their show, are simply out of place and offending because they don't succeed in creating that intimacy which permits the use of this kind of language. Like comedy magic, it takes talent to get through and not less work but more work especially in scripting which the "offending magicians" generally haven't done. Being funny when using "blue" words just requires a lot of talent they don't have because they aren't doing more home work but less home work. I like good magicians: I don't like the ones who haven't done their homework to entertain me, and I know, for having discussed this with many people that this feeling is widely shared. On sleeving, there are also some cultural or social aspects: in California or Texas, it makes sense -even for adults- to live with T-shirts... but for adults: not in Paris, not in London, not so much in New York, Boston, Philadelphia... So sleeving that requires a jacket brought "T-shirt" culture magicians to wear a jacket without a traditional shirt with sleeves. Now this is a tell tale: if magicians that normally live in T-shirt, suddenly wear a jacket with a no sleeve shirt to make the sleeving easier, the suspicion of "it went up his sleeve" increases. Especially because the performers that discovered the joy of sleeving tend to over use it allowing suspicion to focus on that method. Being French, I only wear shirts with French cuffs (you know the one that doubles back) and fancy cufflinks. This normally prevents sleeving but I easily solved the technical aspect (which I have already explained elsewhere in the Café). Now I never use sleeving more than once or twice in a show and, following Juan Tamariz's The Magic Way", I kill the suspicion very early in the show by pointing at my cufflinks that make sending coins up the sleeve "impossible" as it would clink like an alarm bell and I explain along the way that this technique "isn't used any more by magician since the post first world war era except by a very small number of bad magicians (that naturally I'm dissociating from)... Now getting away with sleeving, is the privilege of very good sleight of hand workers: Marion Boykin who has one of the highest level of potential technique is using a Jim Pace sleeving technique but extremely sparingly... because he has a choice of technical tools to include variety in his technical approach. So don't get in love with one technique: just get in love with the variety of approaches that supply a better magical show and if you have to learn additional technique, learn character designing, script writing and showmanship before getting into sleeving techniques: you will have a constant use for such knowledge when the mastery of sleeving is more difficult and is by nature to be used only occasionally. There is a place for everything but "out of place" never really works. Now this is only a showmanship opinion and not an attempt at imposing my own social or ethical concerns.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Russell Davidson Inner circle Hampshire, England 1108 Posts |
Some people get too upset over trivial matters. Just go away & be offended. Nothing happens because of it.
Quite frankly I'm offended by the squeaky clean, lets not swear or god forbid see a picture of a woman's boobs brigade. I bet your acts are a laugh a minute. |
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dedikc Veteran user France (Lyon) 340 Posts |
Hello All,
Just to let you know that we just review the !@#$%^& coin dvd in the Magigazine épisode 2. The magigazine, is a french vidéo mag. Our goal is just to review some new products, and some products that we just forget to use. If you speak french, it's fun to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPAhMwkF76U |
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Pengnome New user 57 Posts |
Perhaps if they called it killing people with coins it would have been less of an issue, even though it is actually a worse title.
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