|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 | ||||||||||
Hugh Entwistle Regular user 177 Posts |
(B) - If you put on a good show with some great mysteries and walk off with some people believing what you just did, then great! But I structure my routines with the entertainment/ fooling aspect. I don't try to make it look 'believable', I make it magical and entertaining. If you structure specifically trying to do A, then some people will think you are a bit of an idiot, try hard .ect.
Take Uri Geller for example, I find him one of the most boring people in the world, he focuses on the belief aspect vs entertainment SO I choose B |
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-29 02:32, Hugh Entwistle wrote: It's essential to have balance between believability and entertainment value. What you are describing sounds like mental magic. If your mysteries don't at least pose the "Could this be real?" question, you're not doing mentalism. |
|||||||||
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Yup, but "could this be real" does not necessitate that the performer be thought to have special powers. The mentalist can also serve as tour guide, co-observer, orchestrator, protector, etc.
methinks that if the word "I" were eliminated from a mentalist's vocabulary they would be better off. Actually, leaving another person with the thought, "Could this be real" should be the goal of everything you do in life -- not just performing.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Frankly, I never met anyone in professional show business who didn't have an "I" in his vocabulary. It takes a very healthy ego to survive in this business.
That's not a value judgment. It's just the way it is and has always been. (Of course, if you have a day job and just do mentalism for fun, this post really doesn't apply.) I don't get on a stage to give people "meaningful experiences" or spiritual insights. I get up there to entertain them with mentalism in the classic sense and perhaps give them the vicarious thrill of wondering what it must be like to read minds. That's what they pay me for, and that's what I deliver. Good thoughts, Bob |
|||||||||
robwar0100 Inner circle Buy me some newspapers.Purchase for me 1 Gazette and 1747 Posts |
Bob,
The post that precedes this is an excellent one. That is what it is all about, distilled to its very essence. I play bass guitar in a praise band at church. I am not a talented musician, but I know enough to hit root notes, octaves and some scale runs. I know which notes are up three half steps or down two half steps. I know the first, fourth and fifth chords in the scale are major chords and the second, third and sixth chords are minors, and the seventh chord is a diminished one. I know the one, four and five chords sound really good together. I know if I go from the first chord to the second chord it pushes up the sound a bit, and it is musically pleasing to follow the second chord with the fifth. Most of the others in the band do not know that much about music or music theory, but they are very talented musicians. They know how to flat-out play (I am truly the weakest player in the bunch), and what they do sounds really good. I bet most of the regular performers here might not have broken down why it is they do what they do, they just know what they do works, their audiences love what they do and they get repeat bookings. It is likely some type of mixture of A and B. It might be 30 percent A, 70 percent B or some other mix, but, in reality, it does not have to be one or the other and likely isn't for most of us. Bobby
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
|
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Reminds me of a question that was supposedly once asked of Hank Williams, Sr.
"Hank, is it true you only know three chords?" "There's more?" |
|||||||||
robwar0100 Inner circle Buy me some newspapers.Purchase for me 1 Gazette and 1747 Posts |
Bob,
There were probably G, C and D (1, 4 and 5, respectively). Those three chords will let you play Sweet Home Alabama and Werewolves of London. Bobby
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
|
|||||||||
mindhunter Inner circle Upstate NY 2280 Posts |
Interesting hypothesis. What I read here is that your show is much stronger than say a John Archer performance because the audience believes what you do is real or at least not a trick.
This statement: "Otherwise it is a magic trick, albeit entertaining." seems to say that even an entertaining magic trick cannot compete with a mentalism piece. I refer back to my orgianal post and the one made by C & K and Bob Cassidy above that expressed there have been many mentalists that have convinced thier audience that they are real but have failed to entertain. I keep reading in the thread that many people here believe that just the strength of a mentalism alone is enough to entertain. Of course we all want to have a strong mind numbing effect AND make it entertaining. However, the question was posed to examine what we feel is more important even it if is 49%/51%. It is just an exercise of self examination. Some of the responses here have made be think more deeply about this conundrum. When I read that someone simply wants the audience to believe that what they do is real. My next question is why? If that is more important than the premise of the entertainment then is this simply ego driven? I notice that almost everyone thinks they are "entertaining as hell" but WHERE are you taking your audience and WHY? "Are You Sure Hank Done It This Way?" by Waylon is a classic....for a reason. Yep. Just three chords was MORE than enough.... Richard: Bob has hit a lot of nails on heads with just a few words. No, you ARE reading it wrong. I'm certainly not saying my "show" is more entertaining than Archer's, or anyone else's (for one reason alone....I DON'T do formal shows anymore. My two or three effects at a table may be considered a "show," and I'll put my effects up against anyone, but as far as a formal show, no, not at all.) Do I think that an very entertaining mentalism piece is "stronger" than a very entertaining magic trick? Absolutely. On a lot of levels. All else being equal, I'd rather entertain them with a great mind reading moment of wonder that later on they "may" think I actually did as I SAID I did it, as opposed to a very great magical moment of wonder that they will try to deconstruct later on. You have said a lot of great things I think a lot of people are also pondering. I think that a lot of demonstrations of mindreading, that could on some level be thought of as real, are leas than entertaining. Conversely, a lot of other themed routines, that don't even come close to convincing spectators you can do real mind reading, are entertaining as hell. My goal is to hopefully think that the few minutes someone spends with me watching my effects leaves with these thoughts, as they walk away with hopefully a mix of a smile and a perplexed look: * Those "X" number of minutes I spent with Bryn were well-worth my time * What he did just opened my eyes to the possibility of ******* (the phenomena he just alluded to) * That was great! To answer your percentage question, I lean more toward the entertainment side, but like to temper it with "perhaps he REALLY did it" side. Great quest you are on, by the way.... Bryn
Bryn D. Reynolds, Author of:
"The Safwan Papers" & "The LOGAR Scrolls" Mentalism ebooks - PM any interest. My artwork: https://darkmountainarts.com |
|||||||||
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Surely the expectations of that audience must figure in the equation -- it is not up to the performer to just decide where he sits in the balance twixt A and B (and 'C' if we throw in Bob's "get the next booking"). Say you are a Bob Cassidy wantabe on your way up (compliment to both)and have three performances scheduled:
A) An evening one-man-man show at a nice theater with folks buying tickets to see the advertised "you;" B) A benefit "Review" with you one the program as "A Magic Act" sandwiched between the Octagenarian Jugglers and a Gospel Barbershop Quartet; C) An afterdinner corporate gig with a potential for five holiday party events in various cities (company jet provided). The CEO's wife say she loves that trick where you tell people in the audience what they have in their purse. Do you do the same act each time? Do your goals (Balance)change for each event? Whatever your goal is, how do you determine if you achieved it?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|||||||||
Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
In the end, I'm not there to 'convert' anyone. I will do my act to the best of my ability and of course not explain the workings to anyone. It is then up to the audience to make of it what they want.
A lifelong sceptic will never be convinced of supernatural things, so why waste time trying to convince them any more than what your act already does. I find my act to be about showing people (hopefully) interesting things, (and by that, entertaining them) not making outlandish claims or trying to force anything on anyone. To do so can come across as very patronising and even confrontational. I find that audiences respond better if I do treat them like adults with their own minds. That way also combats people who do want to be confrontational. If you have made no direct claims, they have nothing to attack you with. All, "So are you saying X.Y.Z?" - "No, I'm not. It's up to you to make your mine up. What do you think?". And whatever their answer can be met with an "Oh that's very interesting". Exactly the same thing handles extreme weirdos who think I am the second coming. (They scare me more than the sceptics!) But mostly these extremists are rare and more usually than not, I get a general cross section of people who just want to be entertained. So that is what I strive to do.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
|
|||||||||
Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
"Octagenarian Jugglers and a Gospel Barbershop Quartet"
Where is this show so I can avoid it? Still, if I were the middle act, it wouldn't be hard to be the hit of the night, would it?
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
|
|||||||||
RichardShure Veteran user 344 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-06-30 09:08, Shrubsole wrote: lol...if they're still awake by the time you make it on stage. Bryn, Interesting comments. Funsway, You are opening up a whole new discussion..that will be for the next thread. The original question was just an exploration into the minds of the people here in the Café as to what they thought was most important to their mentalism and why. I find that hobbyists and professionals have much different answers on this question. Bob Cassidy and C & K gave some very thoughtful and inclusive answers. Those replies alone made this thread worth the time. Cassidy's redefining the term from "make them believe" to "make them question" was very telling and I think, made the question more clear for some. C & K's observation of "simply demonstrating psychic abilities will not carry a show" was very interesting though, I was surprised how many people disagree with them on this. While sitting at Mindvention and listening the many different performers that encompass many different levels of performing, you can learn a great deal about human nature. Watching the All Star Shows or the Attendee shows, you quickly see what philosophies and what performers entertain and which bore. I have been surprised by some of the performers who have put out good books and then when you see them on stage, you are stunned to see their slow, slumbering pace. It makes one then question… is their philosophy valid? It sounded very good in the book, but watching them on stage was excruciating. If you have not been to a Mindvention, I would highly recommend it simply because you will be surprised to see who is entertaining and who is not. And…who’s performance is plausible and who’s is not. And… to notice whether you will care or not. |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » A question posed (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |